Fly to Boston, drive to NH - legal eagles

[mxracer652]

I have a work trip tomorrow, flying to Boston and driving to NH. Destination is NH, will stay overnight there. This smells like trouble getting back through TSA in Boston, after that Jerzy case that just happened. How does this fall under the interstate travel stuff?

Anybody have a reference or input (no speculation please)?

[donm]

I haven't heard of any such incidents at Logan, but the possibility is certainly there:

30.04: Firearms, Ammunition and Dangerous Weapons

All persons shall, promptly upon entering the passenger terminal or General Aviation Terminal, as the case may be, deliver any unloaded Firearms and ammunition, as they are carrying and licensed to carry under Massachusetts law to the appropriate Air Carrier agent for transport in the hold of the aircraft, in the case of commercial flights, or directly to the aircraft, in the case of general aviation aircraft.

I wouldn't be inclined to test the system there. It is possible to get a MA nonresident permit, but a lot of hassle and expensive ($100 for one year). Next time I'd try to fly in to Manchester. Much nicer airport, easy in/out -- and Southwest flies there so the fares are generally competitive.

[mxracer652]

Couldn't get to Manchester w/o going through Chi-town, trust me I don't wantthat rush hour drive out of the city

[tl_3237]

I have a work trip tomorrow, flying to Boston and driving to NH. Destination is NH, will stay overnight there. This smells like trouble getting back through TSA in Boston, after that Jerzy case that just happened. How does this fall under the interstate travel stuff?

Anybody have a reference or input (no speculation please)?

If I understand you correctly your trip involves flying to Boston where you change mode of transportation to auto (presumably rental at the airport) and drive directly to NH.

That being the case then you have to satisfy five things:
1. you legally possess and transport the firearm in your state of trip origin (PA?);
2. you can legally possess and transport the firearm in your state of trip destination (NH);
3. you trip is basically continuous, ie, only reasonable stops intrinsic to the travel (gas, food, potty, overnight if required/justified, etc);
4. for all intervening states you carry the firearms "unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console." (18 USC 926A)
5. you properly check the firearm in accordance with TSA regs whenever you enter into commercial air travel.


Adherence to those five conditions will get you to NH which is your first trip and also from NH back home which is your second trip. Note that when you reach NH your FOPA protection ends and you are subject to whatever the state and local laws are. On your return, again meeting the five conditions, you reacquire FOPA protection for intervening states between NH and your home state (Pa?)

IMO, as a layman, that will protect you legally. Of course it will not prevent rogue action by the cops but those instances are few and far between. Not sure which Jerszy case you refer - if the Revell case then the issue was that he took the firearms to his room in NJ (an intervening state) for an overnight stay (not a good idea becasue he lost his FOPA protection).

[mxracer652]

That whole firearm in the trunk is all good & dandy, but from the rental to the carousel/counter is my concern. It's rather "accessible".

Now that I read up on Revell a little more at lunch, I'm just going to have to leave it at home. I'd need a Mass license to retrieve my luggage & check it in on the way back.

Aha! That’s where the crime came in. The Firearms Owners’ Protection Act protected Revell on the plane, and would have protected him on the bus. But the moment the luggage came into his hands or otherwise became “readily accessible” to him outside a car — here, when he got the luggage to go to the hotel, but it would have also happened if he had gotten the luggage to put it into the trunk of a rental car

Revell sued, and lost; the Third Circuit concluded that once he took the luggage in hand in New Jersey, it became “readily accessible,” and the FOPA immunity was lost. And this is indeed a sensible reading of the statutory text:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

http://volokh.com/2010/03/30/unexpec...un-possession/

[tl_3237]

That whole firearm in the trunk is all good & dandy, but from the rental to the carousel/counter is my concern. It's rather "accessible".

Now that I read up on Revell a little more at lunch, I'm just going to have to leave it at home. I'd need a Mass license to retrieve my luggage & check it in on the way back.




http://volokh.com/2010/03/30/unexpec...un-possession/

I understand and the safest thing is to leave it home. That may well be the best course of action.

However I must take issue with your reference that transferring from baggage claim to the rental car would necessarily terminate the FOPA protection since such transfers are very common and necessary as a normal course of travel. You will note that in Revell he also retrieved his baggage from the airline and gave it to a shuttle to go to the hotel. In the Third Circuit's ruling they never opined that his taking possession at the A/P for the shuttle constituted an FOPA termination. Rather they said that his possession in his hotel room was the determining fact.

A good argument can be made that the carousel to rental car remains protected but, as in anything that goes to court, its like falling down the 'rabbit hole' and logic is not necessarily a compelling tactic.

[donm]

A good argument can be made that the carousel to rental car remains protected but, as in anything that goes to court, its like falling down the 'rabbit hole' and logic is not necessarily a compelling tactic.

Perhaps, particularly since it's unlikely to come up anyway. The unavoidable situation is on the trip home when he walks up to the airline counter at Logan and says "I'd like to check a firearm." If the response is "may I see your license to carry?" it could turn into a very bad day.

[donm]

Couldn't get to Manchester w/o going through Chi-town, trust me I don't wantthat rush hour drive out of the city

BTW, it's not obvious from the map, but O'Hare airport is actually in the "handgun-banning" (for now) city of Chicago.

[headcase]

Unless you can assure that you will have an uninterrupted trip, I would leave it home. I would think that the straight reading of the text would absolutely cover one on a trip such as is being described in the OP, as long as the firearm and ammunition were in a separate locked case, inside the luggage. In that way, it remains not readily accessible, while necessarily switching from one mode of transportation, in an uninterrupted fashion, to another. However, if some act of God should delay that flight, or God forbid cancel it, you are very likely now breaking the law. MA is not gun friendly, and there is, of course, the distinct possibility that an overzealous asswipe could ruin your life.

In the current environment, I would leave it home.

[GHF]

See the following regarding change of mode of travel in a continuous journey:

http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourR...s%20letter.pdf

U. S. Department of Justice
Office of Legislative Affairs
Office of the Assistant Attorney General
Washington, D.C. 20530
February 18, 2005


The Honorable Don Young
U.S. House of Representatives
Washington, DC 20515


Dear Congressman Young:

Thank you for your letter, dated June 18, 2003, to Admiral James M. Loy, then- Administrator of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), concerning the applicability of 18 U.S.C. section 926A to persons at airports in New York State who are taking flights to destinations outside of New York. Because section 926A is a provision of the Gun Control Act (GCA), which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) enforces, TSA forwarded your letter to the Department of Justice for response. We apologize for the delay in responding.

In your letter you explained that local police officers in New York have threatened several individuals at John F. Kennedy International Airport and Albany International Airport with arrest for firearms possession based on strict State laws, and that in at least one case the firearms were confiscated. You explained that: (1) the people carrying the firearms were not prohibited from possessing firearms under Federal law, (2) the people had apparently traveled directly, without any interruption in the transportation, to the airports from other States where they legally could possess firearms, (3) their firearms and ammunition were secured in accordance with all applicable regulations for airline travel, and (4) they were flying to other States or countries where they could legally possess firearms.

You then asked if TSA agrees that section 926A enables these travelers to possess the firearms legally in the New York airports and if so, if TSA would inform local police and prosecutors about this provision of the GCA. We appreciate your bringing this issue to our attention. The Department of Justice agrees that the provisions of section 926A apply to the situation set forth above assuming: (1) the person is traveling from somewhere he lawfully may possess and carry a firearm; (2) en route to the airport the firearm is unloaded and not accessible from the passenger compartment of his car; (3) the person transports the firearm directly from his vehicle to the airline check-in desk without any interuption in the transportation; and (4) while carrying the firearm to the check-in desk it is unloaded and in a locked container. This interpretation reflects the apparent congressional intent in enacting this provision, while allowing State and local law enforcement to continue to enforce their firearms laws aggressively to promote public safety. We will inform the applicable law enforcement authorities of our interpretation of section 926A.

We trust this information responds to your inquiry. If we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact this office.

Sincerely,





William E. Moschella
Assistant Attorney General