Weapons removed by local police

[Ranger 2]

Let me start off by saying I'm a member of a home owners association here in the Poconos. The annual meeting is held at a local fire house (station) in the past some members went beyond being loud and a physical confrontation developed and the local police were called... Since that time the fire company required an on duty police officer be present at association meetings. Last year the association changed their bi-laws to prohibit any weapons at the meetings and while the meeting was underway the police officer requested some members to surrender their weapons or face arrest. I posess a current PA Act 235 certificate. What position should I take if the on duty police should attempt to disarm myself or other members of the community? The fire station has no restrictions on carrying weapons. Any options, suggestions.

Thanks

[HiredGoon]

Let me start off by saying I'm a member of a home owners association here in the Poconos. The annual meeting is held at a local fire house (station) in the past some members went beyond being loud and a physical confrontation developed and the local police were called... Since that time the fire company required an on duty police officer be present at association meetings. Last year the association changed their bi-laws to prohibit any weapons at the meetings and while the meeting was underway the police officer requested some members to surrender their weapons or face arrest. I posess a current PA Act 235 certificate. What position should I take if the on duty police should attempt to disarm myself or other members of the community? The fire station has no restrictions on carrying weapons. Any options, suggestions.

Thanks

Just to be clear...do you also have a PA License To Carry Firearms?

[knight0334]

Who owns the firehouse/company? A great many are private corporations or companies in PA, and if that one is a private corp/company they can restrict carrying.

[Chazman321]

It's a by-law of the HOA, not a real law. If a police officer says you have to surrender your firearm to him or he will arrest you, it's called Official Oppression, and we have laws about that. The chief of the fire department is the only one that can say you can't have weapons there. If it's their meeting, but they don't own the property, they can't say boo... Get the officer's name and badge number, file a complaint with the police chief. If it isn't fixed by the chief, file charges for official oppression and hire a lawyer...

-Chaz

[jcabin]

You cannot carry concealed or transport a loaded firearm with your Act 235 certification. It is ONLY for use on the job. It does not allow you to carry concealed at your whim, and does not extend any other powers whatsoever.

You require a LTCF to transport and carry a firearm concealed in the state of pennsylvania.

[Ranger 2]

Sorry, I do have a LTCF as do other members of the community.

[jcabin]

Sorry, I do have a LTCF as do other members of the community.

Then the police officer has no authority to ask you to hand over your firearm.
Just so you know, your act 235 cannot be used in any way to convey authority or right to carry on private property, unless you are employed or contracted to work at that location. I wouldn't bring up having your act 235 in this situation, as it does not give you any priviledge or advantage over having an LTCF.

[headcase]

Sounds like the FD doesn't want the weapons there either. Bring it up to the property owners and get their take on it. If you are not allowed to go armed, then make a decision. But if you are asking what position to take if an on duty LEO decides that he is disarming you???... Ummm I would take the position that I don't want a cop shooting me. There seems to be a whole lot of attempting to stand up for rights you probably don't have, by being in the position you are putting yourself into voluntarily. I couldn't say for sure without much more detail on the whole situation, but again, it seems like you shouldn't be armed there.

[jcabin]

Sounds like the FD doesn't want the weapons there either.

How do you figure? I think having a police officer there to keep things calm and cool is one thing. I think that instructing the police officer to disarm people at the meetings is a round about way of enforcing a policy, that they apparently never notified members of the HOA was put in place. Then again, I wouldn't be suprised at this tactic. If the FD now has a polic prohibiting weapons in place, they should have notified people who hold meetings there, instead of attempting to confront them on the spot.

The OP said the fire house has no policy restricting possession of firearms, maybe he could look into it and get a final determination. It could just be that the police officer was trying to enforce his own rules.

[gnbrotz]

Sounds like the FD doesn't want the weapons there either. Bring it up to the property owners and get their take on it. If you are not allowed to go armed, then make a decision. But if you are asking what position to take if an on duty LEO decides that he is disarming you???... Ummm I would take the position that I don't want a cop shooting me. There seems to be a whole lot of attempting to stand up for rights you probably don't have, by being in the position you are putting yourself into voluntarily. I couldn't say for sure without much more detail on the whole situation, but again, it seems like you shouldn't be armed there.

I didn't read anything that indicated the FD's position one way or the other. I'm not sure how local LE has the authority to enforce HOA policies under the potential threat of 'comply or face arrest'. The only possible scenario I could imagine would be to arrest for trespass if the party refused to voluntarily disarm, and was then asked to leave the premises by the HOA. I can't see how the policy could forcibly disarm rather than permit someone to simply leave if they wished to. Something also seems off about allowing an on-duty officer to hold the firearms during the meeting - the story of a gun "checked" at a hospital, and subsequently having the numbers run by the po-po comes to mind, and in this case, I'm wondering if placing your firearm voluntarily in the direct possession of a LEO is a smart thing to do?

I do believe that unless the FD is owned by a municipality, and thus bound by preemption, the HOA does have the right to prohibit firearms at it's meetings. I would argue that this interpretation would apply to any meeting location chosen, not just the FD.