I thought I might have to draw on someone at Target?!

[Connal]

If you think a religious whack job staring at you, is a threat enough to draw on, you need to put the gun away, and re-evaluate your life..........

I'm leaning towards this side. Now, granted the guy could have been a real threat. But I don't see anything like that being gun worthy. I've been in harrier situations than that when I was going to school. And no, it wasn't a big school, I graduated in a class of about 60 people.

I think it is good the OP was prepared, and on alert, and told security. I just don't think the guy was anything more than another nutjob. (not saying religious people are nut jobs, just nut jobs are nut jobs.)

[.45 Principal]

If you think a religious whack job staring at you, is a threat enough to draw on, you need to put the gun away, and re-evaluate your life..........

I've worked with psychotic people who are prone to violence for about 10years. There was something wrong with this guy. Just yesterday there was another school shooting in Colorado. You never know what someone will do and like someone else said you get that feeling for a reason.

[.45 Principal]

Also I want to make it clear that I wouldn't have drawn on him unless he had a weapon and acted in an aggressive manner but I was still on a higher level of alert. Better safe than sorry I suppose.

[headcase]

I am kinda leaning toward Fingers here. While you should not ever ignore your gut feelings, it just seems like you were reacting as if you were in a locked room with this guy blocking the only exit. You were in Target, looking at DVDs, not backed against a brick wall in a dead end alley. One should always try to be aware of, and have the quickest access possible to, one's firearm, but you make it seem like you started sweating bullets and were an inch away from drawing on this guy. Situational awareness is not isolated to being aware of the possible threats in your immediate area, it also includes being aware of the non-threats, and egress routes available to you, and not allowing yourself to be cut off from those routes.

It just comes across as though you were seriously over-reacting to the given situation.

Anyway, glad there was no harm done by anyone.

[.45 Principal]

I just re read my original post. I left out a few other things that the guy said and a bunch of his none verbals before I went into how I started mentally preparing. So I can see now why some people responded the way they did.

The biggest thing I was concerned about is this guy going nuts and pulling a weapon. I started thinking about the Son of Sam and the chick that shot up the Springfield mall. I have a feeling that with the closing of mental hospitals and some recent practices of local Philly area crisis centers that we are going to start seeing more people on the streets with psychotic behaviors. This guy may or may not have been psychotic but he creeped me out. That's saying a lot considering the type of students I work with. I'm not easily creeped out but perhaps a little sensitive to people that I suspect have mental illness.

[fingers80002]

I just re read my original post. I left out a few other things that the guy said and a bunch of his none verbals before I went into how I started mentally preparing. So I can see now why some people responded the way they did.

The biggest thing I was concerned about is this guy going nuts and pulling a weapon. I started thinking about the Son of Sam and the chick that shot up the Springfield mall. I have a feeling that with the closing of mental hospitals and some recent practices of local Philly area crisis centers that we are going to start seeing more people on the streets with psychotic behaviors. This guy may or may not have been psychotic but he creeped me out. That's saying a lot considering the type of students I work with. I'm not easily creeped out but perhaps a little sensitive to people that I suspect have mental illness.

And, at this time, even if you saw a weapon, you have the duty to retreat in compete safety....( Which should be fairly easy in a Dept. store.....)

we, in Pa. , do not have stand your ground, yet......

[ar15jules]

Just an observation about individual encounters. I can't say exactly how I would have reacted, because I was not there. Neither were any of you except the OP. With that said, I think each of us may have gotten a completely different sense around this guy who was surely "acting weird". I would have ignored him from the start, then told him to be on his way the next time he approached me. I know people who would have told him to leave them the hell alone and gotten in his face. I know people who would have engaged him in conversation for half an hour about religion. We are all different. Maybe it is because of our upbringing, current occupation or other life experiences. Who knows, but the fact is that oiut of a hundred people to encounter this guy, all of them probably would have "sensed" things a bit different. I think a good lesson to be found here is that if any of us ever feel that we are justified in using deadly force, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ARTICULATE WHY WE FELT THE WAY WE DID.
Jules

[BimmerJon]

And, at this time, even if you saw a weapon, you have the duty to retreat....

we, in Pa. , do not have stand your ground, yet......

If someone reaches for a gun and starts to point it at me and I am in talking distance to them (5-10 feet), there is NO duty to retreat as it would be impossible to do so safety. What are you going to do? Turn, run and get shot in the back?

[Yellowfin]

If you think a religious whack job staring at you, is a threat enough to draw on, you need to put the gun away, and re-evaluate your life..........

I can think of several religions whose whack jobs are precisely the kind of threat that I'd draw on. Ever seen "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" ? There actually are a couple of Hindu cults that were and possibly still are like that. The Moonies would be another one, known to kidnap kids to enslave and convert. Sorry, but they aren't coming near my kids or any that I know without getting a couple of 180 grainers to the head. Some varieties of voodoo are pretty darn creepy and right now the Caribbean is sending plenty of population our way--all are welcome so long as they play nice, but again there's a lot that I don't fancy finding in school parking lots after dark. And let's not forget our favorite fanatics from the so-called Holy Land, who have so many different variations on terror groups it's like collecting Beanie Babies.

Televangelists are yet another category of "Do not trust around your wife or kids" as well, but I won't get into that...

[jcabin]

I think it's a problem when one considers going straight for their gun during a non threatening verbal encounter. I'd hate to see what would have happened if this guy said "fuck you pal" and went to jam his hand into his pocket to retrieve his cell phone and get the time...