Sight picture and accuracy question

[dmcdonnell]

OK Guys, I have a serious question about shooting accuracy and sight picture...

I have practiced a lot, and I am getting better, I have watched numerous DVDs read countless articles, AND I have signed up for the NRA Basic Pistol course, wil be taking the class at the end of the month.

All that said, I am finding some quirks in my technique that I want to run by the more experienced shooters here.

A lot of what I read says that "combat accuracy is more important in a self defense situation than trying to put them all in the X ring at 25 yards.

That said, I started out 10 feet from the target, and after a few trips to the range, I am able to consistently hit the x ring or really close if I use perfect form and technique.

At that range, I hold the pistol with a nice firm grip, with my support hand wrapped around my grip hand, and my thumbs along side each other on the side of the frame. Leaning slightly forward with my left hand applying slight pressure to the grip, smooth squeeze in the trigger and re-aquire the sight picture after the shot, and I get a pretty decent shot in the bullseye at roughly 10 feet

Thats where I run into trouble.. If I move back 5-10 more feet, I am hitting in the center mass area, but the groups are much bigger and the shots are hitting to the left of where I am aiming at the x ring

Can anyone explain why if I am only 5 feet farther back, and aiming the same place, and doing everything the same, that my shotts are hitting to the left?

I have read about "combat accuracy", and based on that thinkng, EVERY shot is in the black on the target, at up to 10 yards, so I am comfortable that I can hit a human sized target at that range, but I really want to be able to fix my technique so that practice will eventually get me 2-3 inch groups in the center of a target at 25 yards.

Dave

[TonyF]

Just left or low and to the left?

Just left is often too much finger on the trigger. Try using only the tip (pad) of the finger.

Low and to the left is an error known as "trigger slap" and much more complicated to describe.

Never let your finger break contact with the trigger and after each shot, only release the trigger to the point where the sear resets (you'll hear and feel a "click"). If you break contact with the trigger, as your finger comes back onto the face of the trigger you'll "slap it", pull through the slack, and disturb your sight alignment in a "low and to the left" direction.

Distance magnifies errors in technique which is why even backing up a few more feet has disclosed a problem.

[dmcdonnell]

Tony, I appreciate the reply.. Actually, if I REALLy try and maintain th esight picture, its just to the left, if I get careless and let the recoil push me around, they start to drift to the lower left..

I was thinking that I might be applying too much pressure with my left hand, and as a result, I am pulling the sjhot to the left as I fire..

I am confident that the NRA course will help improve my technique..

Thanks again.
Dave

Just left or low and to the left?

Just left is often too much finger on the trigger. Try using only the tip (pad) of the finger.

Low and to the left is an error known as "trigger slap" and much more complicated to describe.

Never let your finger break contact with the trigger and after each shot, only release the trigger to the point where the sear resets (you'll hear and feel a "click"). If you break contact with the trigger, as your finger comes back onto the face of the trigger you'll "slap it", pull through the slack, and disturb your sight alignment in a "low and to the left" direction.

Distance magnifies errors in technique which is why even backing up a few more feet has disclosed a problem.

[TonyF]

I was thinking that I might be applying too much pressure with my left hand, and as a result, I am pulling the shot to the left as I fire..

Actually, if it has anything to do with your grip, it would be your firing hand applying too much pressure. If you shoot Weaver, the "push / pull" is what controls recoil and with ISO, it's the locked arms. A death grip on the pistol doesn't control recoil.

Bear in mind there are often several errors a shooter may be committing simultaneously that can account for the low left POI you're experiencing.

Good on you getting some training.

[synergy]

Just left or low and to the left?

Just left is often too much finger on the trigger. Try using only the tip (pad) of the finger.

For a RH shooter, too much finger often results in a pulling motion, so shots landing right.

Too little trigger finger results in pushing, so left landings shots.

Or do I have it backwards....?

[TonyF]

For a RH shooter, too much finger often results in a pulling motion, so shots landing right.

Too little trigger finger results in pushing, so left landings shots.

Or do I have it backwards....?

Seems backwards in my experience.

Too much trigger finger often causes the proximal joint to make contact with the frame which pushes the frame to the left. This same phenomenon is known as "dragging wood" in rifle shooting.

[YBNORMAL]

I have had this happen to me when I first started out as well, someone on here posted a "pistol correction target". I found this to be very helpfull in telling me what I was doing wrong. I was hitting low-left and the target has a pie-type layout which will tell you what your doing depending on where your groups are hitting, low-left if I remember right can mean your tightening your RH grip fingers as you squeze the trigger.

The target came from XD talk. or some type of XD forum.

give it a try, its printable from here on an 8.5/11 standard printer paper.

[LDMF]

Here's a link to the target ybnormal was speaking of. It is from xdtalk.com

https://home.comcast.net/~GreatDaneB...-RH-Letter.pdf

[CHEMICAL]

heres some other printable free targets you guys might enjoy, the bottom one is also the pistol correction one:

http://www.mytargets.com/

http://www.gamecalls.net/free_stuff/...e_targets.html

http://www.lyndenhuggins.com/hunting...ts/targets.htm

http://www.is-lan.com/challenge/imag...Correction.pdf

[synergy]

For a RH shooter, too much finger often results in a pulling motion, so shots landing right.

Too little trigger finger results in pushing, so left landings shots.

Or do I have it backwards....?

Seems backwards in my experience.

Too much trigger finger often causes the proximal joint to make contact with the frame which pushes the frame to the left. This same phenomenon is known as "dragging wood" in rifle shooting.

I just checked the handouts I have from class.



In my hands, and the students hands...this seems to help them figure out which way to adjust.

Although it looks like S&W disagrees...
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/...tion_guide.pdf
top of p. 10.

As does Jarrett in the infamous grip video.

I guess you just need to experiment with you contact point, and just watch the sights as you figure it out.