Some thoughts on OC

[5711-Marine]

The recurring theme on many OC threads is one that involves an officer responding to a call for a Man With A Gun (MWAG). The responding officer lacks an understanding of the law, and then the situation plays out one of two ways, either the officer is professional and learns about the law during the incident or there is what can only be described as an official act of oppression.

As I think about our plight when dealing with the general public (including some police officers) it occurred to me that perhaps there is another angle we should pursue relative to the training / awareness campaign. The only way the LEO arrives on scene (off duty officer in the vicinity notwithstanding) is if a call is made and the dispatcher sends an officer to respond.

Since there are fewer dispatchers than officers, it may make sense to lobby to enhance the police dispatcher training curriculum to include the UFA and develop a check list for the call taker to ask the person calling in a MWAG.

this seems like a logical approach to me but what do others think?



The PA Code § 120c.106. Emergency dispatcher certification.

(b) (2) An emergency dispatcher’s certification is valid for 3 years from the date the certification was issued by the Agency. To maintain certification as an emergency dispatcher, an individual shall comply with the recertification requirements in subsection (d).

(c) (2) A dispatcher police shall receive a minimum of 136 hours of classroom and hands-on instruction. Training courses shall consist of one of the following items: completion of all call taker training requirements (104 hours) plus 32 hours of police safety issues, policy terminology, police dispatching protocols, 911 center requirements, NCIC/clean orientation, police dispatching incident specifics and other material considered necessary by the instructor and which has been approved by the Agency.

(d) Recertification. An emergency dispatcher shall apply for recertification between 6 months and 60 days prior to expiration of the emergency dispatcher’s certification from the Agency. An emergency dispatcher’s failure to apply for recertification in a timely manner may result in the individual not being recertified before the prior certification expires. The Agency will recertify as an emergency dispatcher an individual who meets the following qualifications:

(1) Completes an application on a form supplied by the Agency.

(2) Is or was previously certified as an emergency dispatcher by the Agency.

(3) Successfully passes an emergency dispatcher written examination prescribed by the Agency.

[falcn]

I've read the same idea on here before - can't find the thread(s) right now....worn out and it is late.

Short answer - I know people agree with your idea (their idea). It would be good if they all got some training on this.

[cavmedic]

You plan seems to work in therory , but in reality it will never happen for larger call centers. It is not the job of the APCO certified dispatcher to know the laws. That is what the Law Enforcement is for.

BUT when you are being certified by APCO , there are guidlines or "outlines" shall we say that should be followed .

Maybe what should be asked is , are those outlines being followed at the call centers ?

Are they getting proper descriptions , are they relaying the acts in progress or lack of.

Is the weapon pointed and waved around or is it resting peacefully in ones holster.

[truecrimson]

I've heard or read reports that in areas with multiple OCers the dispatchers are being trained to ask if the gun is holstered or something similar. An officer still is dispatched to check things out, but with a little more information.

IIRC it seems to have been motivated by the officers themselves gettin tired of responding to MWAG calls only to find an OCer buying baby diapers or something.

I don't recall the specifics of where I heard or read this.

[ImminentDanger]

Here's what I posted in another thread...
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...tml#post689139

I think there is something more the operator (call taker) should do in the MWAG scenarios.... for the benefit of the officer and/or the citizen....

The operator should ask the caller what activity with the gun they have actually observed. This provides valuable information to the officer to use when he arrives....

If the caller describes the gun in action (waving it around, pointing it, discharging it) then the officer has RAS to actually do an Investigative Detention while the allegations are investigated further for truthfulness or error.....

On the otherhand, if the caller simply confirms that the gun was observed in a holster and NOTHING MORE, then the officer should arrive on scene expecting to observe and investigate without disturbing the citizen (MWAG) unless some further indication leads to the need for a Mere Encounter or more....

In either case, the caller should be informed they have a duty to remain available (even if not on the actual scene) for the officer to talk with regarding their report/concern.... This would give the officer the opportunity to inform the caller (face-to-face) of the Wholly Legal aspects of carrying a firearm Openly or Concealed, or, should there actually be some criminal behavior, to take a direct report of the activity the caller described to the operator.

I think this justifies the operator doing more.....

Callers who report a MWAG should be held liable for the 'supposed facts' they convey about what is happening. Too often, the target of a MWAG call is being completely legal in their actions and the call is a means of harrassment by those who disagree with that legality....

... Stay Safe ...
ID

[headcase]

From your fingertips to God's ears.....

[ungawa]

These types of incidents are happening less and less. I've certainly never had one in the past six months, and I OC ALL the time in PA.

The subject of dispatchers has been discussed for years on this forum. I can only guess people have worked on it, but if you want to run with the ball I suggest you contact the admins of PAFOA or paopencarry for some advice and assistance in your efforts.

[5711-Marine]

Thanks for all the replies.

[Computer Steve]

I agree about going to the 911 centers as well as the officers.

All you have to do is get them to ask "Is It Holstered?"

[cavmedic]

As a former dispatcher , I can tell you that even asked , the caller will over dramatize it. Especially since the person calling it in is already in a panic , hence why they are calling.


Although this would be a great call


D: 911 what is your emergency

c: there is a man with a gun at 123 s crackhead alley

D: can you describe the man , his clothing , his direction of travel and what he is doing with the gun

c: <screaming> hurry , he has a gun , think of all the children

D: ma'am , calm down , i can not help you when you are not telling me the info we need for the Police. Now, what exactly is he doing?

c: nothing , he is walking down the street with gun on his hip. HURRY!!!!!

D:so the firearm is in the holster , NOT being waved or pointed , the man is making no threats?

C: Yeah , that is illegal to have a gun like that , hurry

D: ma'am , this is not an emergency , please call back on a non emergency line. :Click: