Stopped from entering Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh

[prophet23]

As I was entering the library a guy in a tie and a name tag said:

"Excuse me sir, are you in law enforcement?"

I told him I wasn't and he responded that Library policy only allows LEO's onto the premises with weapons. Considering that I have come to the library often I was a bit surprised by this and asked him if this was the PUBLIC library. He told me it was but that it was private property.

I wasn't going to argue the point at that time because he was only doing as he was told and I wanted to be 100% sure that I was right before I continued moving this up the pike. I asked him for his business card and he gave me his bosses and wrote his name on back along and also gave me a copy of an "Appropriate Library Behavior" pamphlet just so I didn't think he was making it up. He was very pleasent and I don't begrudge him at all but I am curious; is Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh publically funded and as such aren't they prohibited from telling me that I cannot be in their with my sidearm?

The funny thing on the pamphlet he gave me was this:

In order to provide a safe and comfortable enviroment, the following are NOT PERMITTED in the library:

- Weapons

There were more than that but it got me thinking, if im a black belt in karate my hands are weapons, an old codger's walking stick who knows cane fu or not is a weapon, hell, a heavy enough BOOK is a weapon...I find this arbirtrary and I think its against the law in regards to pre-emption. Furthermore, how is disarming me making the enviroment any more safe...in fact it has the opposite effect.

[Curmudgeon]

So... find out who owns it.

Just because "tie" says it, and it is stated in a brochure, doesn't grant immunity from preemption.

[Curmudgeon]

This is about all I could find...

About Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh
To Engage our Community in Literacy and Learning

Established as a public trust in 1895, Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh serves the citizens of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County with a distinguished history of leadership among the country’s great public libraries. Through its 19 neighborhood locations, including Main Library and the Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh is the region’s most visited asset, with 2.6 million visitors in 2008. Each year the Library provides valuable resources, programs, classes and training opportunities that engage the community in literacy, and life-long learning.

Bold is mine.

Now all we need is for someone to tell us the significance of "public trust".

[prophet23]

Speaking of Public Trust, looky who is on the board of trustee's and the reason (in parantheses) as to why they are on it:


Reverend Ricky V. Burgess (City Council Member)

John DeFazio (County Representative)

William Isler (Board of Education Representative)

Bruce Kraus (City Representative)

Barbara Logan (County Representative)

Chuck McCullough (County Representative)

Alice Mitinger (County Representative)

James Motznik (City Representative)

Tonya Payne (City Representative)

Terri Wolfe (City of Pittsburgh Mayor Representative)

Now, to me this seems that if the Library has representatives for the County and City and that they are also publically funded that they should have to follow the law of 18 PA.C.S. § 6120

And by definition a Public trust is a trust designed for the benefit of the general public, as for educational or other charitable purposes as opposed to a private trust.

[LittleRedToyota]

i am pretty sure that the original money for the carnegie libraries came from an endowment created and funded by andrew carnegie (hence the name).

i don't know if they have gotten public money on top of that.

just because it is a "public trust" though, does not automatically mean it is publicly funded or in any other way is subjected to the pre-emption clause. they might be, but they might not be.

[Curmudgeon]

i am pretty sure that the original money for the carnegie libraries came from an endowment created and funded by andrew carnegie (hence the name).

i don't know if they have gotten public money on top of that.

just because it is a "public trust" though, does not automatically mean it is publicly funded or in any other way is subjected to the pre-emption clause. they might be, but they might not be.

LRT, they state that Carnegie provided seed money only. All other monies are from charitable donations.

Does that answer the issue? I can go back and find the quote is it matters.

[LittleRedToyota]

LRT, they state that Carnegie provided seed money only. All other monies are from charitable donations.

Does that answer the issue? I can go back and find the quote is it matters.

i see.

well, since the money comes from charitable donations rather than public funding, i would think they are not likely subject to the preemption clause.

they are not a county or municipality and are not funded by one nor acting as an agent of one.

but, i am not a lawyer and i really don't know...just my guess.

[Brick]

Once again I must plead a certain level of ignorance since I'm not a PA native. In NYS the public libraries are government instrumentalities and are owned and operated by the city (in some cases) or the scholl district. In either case they are publicly funded.

But, I seems to me that a "public trust" could be a private organization owning a building and the buildings contents and operating the facility, in this case a library for the benefit of the public and receiving a mix of private, charitable and public funding. Rather like a volunteer fire department. The fire company owns the building and grounds, the volunteer members are part owners of the company and they provide fire protection for the municipality and are funded with both public and private funds.

[SgtStreb]

If they function entirely on charitable donations then most likely the are a 501(c)(3) Non-profit organization. They may be owned by the government, but as long as no public money is being fed into them I'm pretty sure they are exempt.

It is interesting to note however that if they are a 501(c)(3) organization, they can hire Private Police if they get approval from a common pleas judge. So be careful, as the next time you try to OC in there, "tie" may have been given a real badge and he may open fire claiming that you were "brandishing." I'm not trying to be funny, I've heard of it happening in other states.

[ungawa]

It is interesting to note however that if they are a 501(c)(3) organization, they can hire Private Police if they get approval from a common pleas judge. So be careful, as the next time you try to OC in there, "tie" may have been given a real badge and he may open fire claiming that you were "brandishing." I'm not trying to be funny, I've heard of it happening in other states.

LOL
.