Able vs Disabled

[mercop]

This past weekend at the edged weapon course in Indianapolis we were talking about some of the things that could likely lead up to and justify the use of deadly force. One thing that can add to the totality of circumstances is someone who is able-bodied attacking someone who is disabled. When we hear someone say disabled our minds eye can have a tendency view someone that has a visible handicap or debilitating injury. That may only be the case some of the time.



In the beginning of all courses we have people fill out student contact sheets that include them listing injuries and allergies. Some of the most common issues include back, neck, shoulders, elbows and knees. The first two no only hinder mobility but aggravation can lead to central nervous system issues and possible paralysis. Aggravating a shoulder or elbow injury could severely hinder your ability to defend yourself or retain your weapons. Everyone needs to take an inventory of his or her physical condition and consider it in their overall personal protection plan.



Consider a scenario that starts off with you defending yourself against an open hand attack during which you move backwards and fall over a curb. As you hit the ground your eyes slam shut, with your arms stretched out to break you fall you land. You feel pain shoot down your back and into your legs. Just as you realize that you have severely injured your back you open your eyes only to see your attacker rushing you. What began as a fistfight has now escalated to what could require you to use the deadly force of a gun or knife to save your life.



Another common scenario is someone being punched or kicked repeatedly in the head. Any reasonable person would conclude that loosing consciousness might require the use of deadly force on your part to survive.


Even an able bodied person can be disabled in fractions of a second.

[4XLT]

excellent points to think about !!

i have knee ankle back and shoulder injuries in my past ( ima mess)

i have friends who own a bar and often i help out with "excorting" people tot he parking lot and its always in the back of my head what if , im a big guy, and can take care of myself quite well, BUT i do not run !!

so i must stay and fight if the bad guy turns on me to fight.. im ok with that , like i said ive been there and done that but now 41 years old 100 + lbs over weight and injuries i wonder what if...

what if his buddy comes out, in my 20's that would have been no problem, many times i had to fight off 2 and 3 attackers at that age and the shape i was in, and also mental state i didnt mind, but now it makes me think..... what if

rep sent to you sir for sparking the thoughts what if...

[emsjeep]

I remember going over this on opencarry.org a while ago and I was of the opinion that pretty much any threat of physical force by someone who could very well visit it upon me would and could be met by a threat of deadly force. Plenty of encounters have shown that just a single punch can incapacitate and even kill even barring you falling down and hitting your head on something else. In addition, if I am disabled by a punch then there is a chance that I will loose control of my weapon. We talked on OC.org about being approached in a vehicle by another driver or pedestrian who appears to be agitated. My solution and current game plan is this when armed: 1) Drive away if possible. 2) Exit the vehicle early and tell my passenger to do the same. 3) Cover behind the door and or some other more solid part if possible. 4) Order the individual to stop. 5) Order the individual to stop and inform them that I am armed. 6) Draw and fire. With a little modification for the situation I think that that is an appropriate plan, it is a pretty safe assumption that if they continue to approach you in a threatening manner after you have verbally threatened deadly force that they are intent on killing you...

[mercop]

During the course we had a few people fall. Force on force was done in the grass so it was not that big of a deal. Earlier in the day we spoke about how people cross their feet when moving backwards and fall during force on force and for real. We also discussed the need to know how to fall. During one force on force our oldest student, a doctor in his 60's but in very good shape fell backwards and landed on his but and outstretched hands. If that had been him trying to gain distance during an assault in a parking lot he would have likely injured his tailbone and injured his hands/elbows. That is just how fast an able bodied person can become disabled. It all happened because he crossed his feet while moving backwards. This is VERY common and spawned the following drill we do in our Combative Pistol course.

We do something called the One Gun Drill. You start on your back with a holstered blue gun. The scenario is just this, you are involved in an altercation and knocked to your back and now injured against an unarmed attacker. As you are on the ground your firearm becomes exposed and a fight ensues. Both your hand and the bag guys hands are on it. You need to decide whether you are trying to draw it or retain it and he is trying to get it out and use it on you. Remember, if you carry a pistol and are involved in a altercation there is a gun involved in the fight.- George

[TaePo]

How about heart patients or diabetics?

In either case, they cannot run away effectively (retreat) or at least not for long.

They cannot engage effectively, or at least not for long.

Especially if the diabetic is already experiencing a sugar low to begin with.

Rather than be a reason for a stronger criminal to pick on a weaker individual, it should give them pause that if the victim is armed, the standard for using deadly force as a defense may be judged must less.

Which also works great for big man vs. small woman etc. or young vs. elderly.

It would be interesting if anyone knows of any case law that would show if these handicaps have affected the decisions regarding self defense.