What is defined as concealed?

[Kevin3824]

I am curious as to how the work concealed is defined. I know that there are different levels of coverage but where is the actual line drawn? If a holster is worn and the entire handle is covered by clothing but the bottom of the holster protrude beyond the clothing covering it is that still concealed?

What about printing of a covered firearm is that still concealed if it prints clearly or even partially?

Does a LTCF also cover concealed long guns or shotguns on a person outside of a motor vehicle? I noticed a stipulation of having loaded long guns in a motor vehicle before. That is why I asked about it as being on foot not within a vehicle.

[Pa. Patriot]

A search would reveal answers to all your Q's


The short of it:
There is no definition of "concealed" in the Pa. crimes code.
Common law should follow, generally, the common definition of concealed IE: hidden from plain view. I am without case law citation to confirm or deny that. Common consensus is that if the firearm is readily discernible as a firearm by the avg person, upon casual observation, than it is not concealed.
A t-shirt covering the firearm, no matter how bad the print, is concealed.
I guarantee the court will consider a t-shirt covering the gun as hiding it IE: concealed. If you find an attorney that accomplishes the opposite please fwd their number to me, we have work for them

Long guns are not covered by an LTCF.
18Pa.C.S.6106 generally prohibits carrying firearms concealed and in vehicles. Firearms are defined as handguns and rifles/shotguns with barrel legnth less than 15". An LTCF makes an exception to the prohibition.

loaded Long guns are prohibited from being carried in a vehicle by 18Pa.C.S.6106.1 An LTCF is not an exception.

[Statkowski]

Long guns are prohibited from being carried in a vehicle by 18Pa.C.S.6106.1

That should read "Loaded long guns are prohibited..."

[headcase]

I am curious as to how the work concealed is defined. I know that there are different levels of coverage but where is the actual line drawn? If a holster is worn and the entire handle is covered by clothing but the bottom of the holster protrude beyond the clothing covering it is that still concealed?

What about printing of a covered firearm is that still concealed if it prints clearly or even partially?

Does a LTCF also cover concealed long guns or shotguns on a person outside of a motor vehicle? I noticed a stipulation of having loaded long guns in a motor vehicle before. That is why I asked about it as being on foot not within a vehicle.

*bold is mine

6106.1. Carrying loaded weapons other than firearms.
General rule. -- Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1), (2), (5) or (6) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) nor shall the provisions of this section be construed to permit persons to carry firearms in a vehicle where such conduct is prohibited by section 6106.

6102

"Firearm."

Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
a. Offense defined. -- Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
************************************************** ***


Your questions are answered in these statutes. A LTCF is required to conceal a firearm on or about your person, or to have one in a vehicle. According to the defining statutes, the definition of a firearm is under 6102.



As far as the definition of concealed goes, IDK. I have not seen a solid legal definition, but it is defined commonly as "to hide from view". In my book, having any part of your weapon covered and hidden from view puts you in the concealed carry column. IANAL.....

[Kevin3824]

"In my book, having any part of your weapon covered and hidden from view puts you in the concealed carry column. IANAL....."

Well if that is the case then would that not include a holster itself as a concealment item. Therefore would that not make what we call "Open Carry" as actually being concealed?

I am not a lawyer and do not profess to be one at all. I did however wonder if there was not written somewhere a definition of percentage of a firearm being covered somewhere?

I think it could reasonably argued that that you could have a holster for a pistol that was not the shape of a pistol but designed to hold it and therefore concealed the firearm.

The reverse argument could also be made that because a holstered plain view firearm is 3/4+ covered by the holster yet still in open view.


For that matter a mossburg 500 shotgun under a coat would also be concealed.

[headcase]

"In my book, having any part of your weapon covered and hidden from view puts you in the concealed carry column. IANAL....."

Well if that is the case then would that not include a holster itself as a concealment item. Therefore would that not make what we call "Open Carry" as actually being concealed?

I am not a lawyer and do not profess to be one at all. I did however wonder if there was not written somewhere a definition of percentage of a firearm being covered somewhere?

I think it could reasonably argued that that you could have a holster for a pistol that was not the shape of a pistol but designed to hold it and therefore concealed the firearm.

The reverse argument could also be made that because a holstered plain view firearm is 3/4+ covered by the holster yet still in open view.


For that matter a mossburg 500 shotgun under a coat would also be concealed.

My mistake, I assumed the average person recognized a holster as a firearm accessory. An OWB holster with a firearm inserted would not, IMO, constitute concealment as long as the visible part of the firearm is not being concealed, as the whole of the firearm package is easily recognizable as being a separate entity. You may run into a problem with an IWB holster, as only a portion of the firearm is easily distinguishable as being a separate entity.

The holster is the generally accepted firearm securing device, and IMO is considered part of the package. Understanding that, if you go back to my original post, I would think it still holds true. If you cover your firearm,or hide it from view, you would very likely be considered to be concealing.

I will further go back and reiterate that I have not seen a legal definition on what concealed means in any statute or court decision, so YMMV. I may be completely off base, and so may you or anyone else who postulates on the definition. The SCOPA has made reference on more than one occasion to there being a difference between concealed and open methods of carry, so apparently there is some line. I would offer that having any part of a HOLSTERED firearm covered would get you into hot water, sans LTCF. Again, YMMV.

[Pa. Patriot]

That should read "Loaded long guns are prohibited..."

Ah - correct!

... I did however wonder if there was not written somewhere a definition of percentage of a firearm being covered somewhere?

Not in Pa. code. Nor any case law that anyone has found here.

For that matter a mossburg 500 shotgun under a coat would also be concealed.

Yes, but there is no prohibition on concealing a long gun. Only "firearms" per the definition of subsection 6102.

[Statkowski]

Is this concealed enough?

[Kevin3824]

I am pretty stuck on finding a clear answer to this idea of what is concealed.

I have found the following:

The following is a state law defining a condealed weapon:

62.1-04-01. Definition of concealed. A firearm or dangerous weapon is concealed if it is carried in such a manner as to not be discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby. There is no requirement that there be absolute invisibility of the firearm or dangerous weapon, merely that it not be ordinarily discernible. A firearm or dangerous weapon is considered concealed if it is not secured, and is worn under clothing or carried in a bundle that is held or carried by the individual, or transported in a vehicle under the individual's control or direction and available to the individual, including beneath the seat or in a glove compartment. A firearm or dangerous weapon is not considered concealed if it is:

1. Carried in a belt holster which is wholly or substantially visible or carried in a case designed for carrying a firearm or dangerous weapon and which is wholly or substantially visible;
2. Locked in a closed trunk or luggage compartment of a motor vehicle;
3. Carried in the field while lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping, or target shooting, whether visible or not; or
4. Carried by any person permitted by law to possess a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to that person's home or place of business, or to a place of repair, or back from those locations.
5. A bow and arrow, an unloaded rifle or shotgun, or an unloaded weapon that will expel, or is readily capable of expelling, a projectile by the action of a spring, compressed air, or compressed gas including any such weapon commonly referred to as a BB gun, air rifle, or CO 2 gun, while carried in a motor vehicle.

found it at http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/concealed-weapons/


Now to me that means that if you carry a firearm in its original case or one like a hunting case it is not concealed. I think that has its flaws as if you think about it most pistol cases just look like a small hardsided tote or portfolio type briefcase.


Interesting though that a short barrelled shotgun is not considered a firearm though a thompson centerfire with 45-70 government or 410 shotgun shell in it might be thought of as a pistol considering it has only a 14" barrell. For that matter The Judge also qualifies as a firearm even if it is loaded with 410 shotgun shells.

[headcase]

I am pretty stuck on finding a clear answer to this idea of what is concealed.

I have found the following:

The following is a state law defining a condealed weapon:

62.1-04-01. Definition of concealed. A firearm or dangerous weapon is concealed if it is carried in such a manner as to not be discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby. There is no requirement that there be absolute invisibility of the firearm or dangerous weapon, merely that it not be ordinarily discernible. A firearm or dangerous weapon is considered concealed if it is not secured, and is worn under clothing or carried in a bundle that is held or carried by the individual, or transported in a vehicle under the individual's control or direction and available to the individual, including beneath the seat or in a glove compartment. A firearm or dangerous weapon is not considered concealed if it is:

1. Carried in a belt holster which is wholly or substantially visible or carried in a case designed for carrying a firearm or dangerous weapon and which is wholly or substantially visible;
2. Locked in a closed trunk or luggage compartment of a motor vehicle;
3. Carried in the field while lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping, or target shooting, whether visible or not; or
4. Carried by any person permitted by law to possess a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to that person's home or place of business, or to a place of repair, or back from those locations.
5. A bow and arrow, an unloaded rifle or shotgun, or an unloaded weapon that will expel, or is readily capable of expelling, a projectile by the action of a spring, compressed air, or compressed gas including any such weapon commonly referred to as a BB gun, air rifle, or CO 2 gun, while carried in a motor vehicle.

found it at http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/concealed-weapons/


Now to me that means that if you carry a firearm in its original case or one like a hunting case it is not concealed. I think that has its flaws as if you think about it most pistol cases just look like a small hardsided tote or portfolio type briefcase.


Interesting though that a short barrelled shotgun is not considered a firearm though a thompson centerfire with 45-70 government or 410 shotgun shell in it might be thought of as a pistol considering it has only a 14" barrell. For that matter The Judge also qualifies as a firearm even if it is loaded with 410 shotgun shells.

The problem with attempting to use this found definition, is that it has nothing to do with Pennsylvania. In fact, most of that list is directly contridicted by Pa. statute. I understand the frustration with some of the ambiguity in our firearm related statutes, but I guess my overall point here has been that when the law is unclear, you would be much better served to err on the side of caution when attempting to make up your own definition of an ambiguity in the law. Until the courts give a definition, or the legislature makes one, tucking or allowing your firearm to become covered (by anything other than the holster), will most likely be seen as concealed in this Commonwealth.

OASN~ Why would a SBS not be considered a firearm under 6102? Been a long day so maybe I'm missing something?