PA cop spot on about OC & how to act.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

http://forums.officer.com/t90751/

The thread is an older one, but talking about PAFOA & some amazingly illegal actions by the doylestown PD.

There is the usual smattering of uniformed comments, as well as non-sense about officer safety & the like.

But then voices of the law start to crack through..


And then bam, the truth, facts, common sense.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

grog18b
Omnipotent Stomper

Join Date
May 2007
Location
PA
Posts
1,152
Originally Posted by MPSoldier84
Why do it? You KNOW it's going to grab attention! So why do it?
First off, open carry in PA is legal. Read your PA Constitution.

To answer the question above... Because it's a right. Why do you vote (or not vote)? Why do you go to church (or choose not to)? Why do you come to this forum and post? Because they are your rights. I don't need to explain why I would choose to open carry, or not to. Personally, it's nobody's business. Why some people get off on pushing their beliefs on others is beyond me. Plain and simple, it's the right of every human being to protect themselves, and if they choose to do that by carrying a firearm, then so be it. If you are a cop, like I am, why do YOU open carry? Why not forgo the gunbelt and tuck that firearm into your pants so as to not draw attention to yourself? Because you don't have to, that's why. Because it's easier for you to get to, and USE in a self protection manner. That's the whole point in carrying a firearm, right? Who knows how many crimes have been prevented before they were carried out by openly carrying officers, and or citizens? No one knows except the criminals. Some cops will say that criminals could disarm the citizen. Well... They can disarm us too. The fact that citizens choose to carry firearms gives them the CHANCE to defend themselves and others. Everyone should have the right of self defense.

Just because the majority of society CHOOSES not to exercise their rights to keep and bear arms, does not mean those rights are given up. Bottom line is, any State that allows open carry, people should exercise that right. I do.

Our chief council advised us, in answer to this very question (Do we as police officers have the right [interesting use of the word] to stop a citizen openly carrying a firearm, absent any other indication of criminal behavior, for ID and licensing purposes?

Answer: No, we as police officers do not have the right to stop someone, by the mere fact they are exercising a right guaranteed by the PA State Constitution.
*********+++++



Originally Posted by t150vsuptpr
It's not a lawful open carry that drives these incidents, it's an unreasonable fear on the part of those members of society who have abrogated their own responsability for their own safety coupled with a response from police so anxious to appease those unreasoned fears that they often forget law.

The mear fact that someone is "afraid" or "alarmed" is scant reason to assume that a law is broken. That they may expect action is scant reason to violate another's rights.

Perhaps if more honest folk did exercise their rights, these "uninformed of society" would get used to it, and maybe the evil doers will also take note, and life in that area become safer?

Especially during hunting season, it is very common to see folk walk around at gas stops, coffee shops, etc openly carrying in a hunting holster. Not very likely to have an armed robbery at the local 7-11 when regular customers are visiting with .44s hanging in holsters across the chest or at their side at 4 or 6am as they prepare for the day's hunt. Customers don't call in complaints on them? Is the law different then?

State's laws generally do not address open carry on the part of POLICE either, usually just exempting them from having to have permits to carry concealed.
VERY WELL PUT MY BROTHER... AMEN I would only add to the first part, is that some of the responses by responding LEOs are overzealous due to lack of knowledge of the laws, and of the constitution. You'd be amazed by how many fellow LEOs I've asked, don't know the laws regarding firearms. A lot of what officers know is based on personal experience, meaning that, if those officers come from a city background, they are usually more ignorant of firearms laws as opposed to those of us that hunted, and grew up with firearms, and have no fear of them. Same with citizens too. Those that grew up around them, no fear. Those that are not used to seeing them, freak out. I had a few calls while working in Pike County (a suburb of NYC) of people complaining of gunfire. (they moved in next to a range) I advised them, welcome to the country, and to get used to it. I often got the "You mean you are not going to do anything about it????" response, but, they were told the same thing by management.

[Deleted]

2008 vs. 2015

[HyDef]

2008 vs. 2015

Has there been any movement on the lawsuit against the Dickson City PD?

[bluetrane2028]

Visited my wife for her lunch break yesterday at work. We took our year and a half old to a pizza shop. Tonino's in Frazer. While we were there, a police officer came in to pick up two pizzas for his buddies at the department. I was in the booth facing the door, my openly carried G22 visible to the world. When he was behind me, wife said he pitched a look in my direction and then saw me hugging my son and realized rather quickly that I'm just a family man who chooses for one reason or another to be open about my willingness to defend that family. He left, never said a word. Wife thinks he wasn't really in favor of what I was doing, but was professional enough to realize that it's my right and my business and as such it was a non event. I for one am happy that this state really does have its stuff together in a lot of ways in regards to our rights. Could it be better? Sure, but I'm damn glad we're not more like our liberal neighbors.

Later in the day, while in Delaware filling up my Jeep (stopped at Cabelas for some things) my NRA shirt grabbed the attention of another customer at the gas station. Big black guy. I was not carrying, not licensed for Delaware, no desire to become a felon. I was, however, wearing an NRA shirt with a pic on the back of Uncle Sam holding an AR-15 and stating "what part of shall not be infringed do you not understand?." I was asked what I felt we needed to do about the "assault weapons" and a few other things. Was trying to keep it one word answers but the guy kept pressing. I gave in and had the formal conversation. Glad I did. He talked about his time when he lived in Philly, some of the things he saw there. Said the kids aren't out buying .45s, and now all these mass shootings were happening... and that he's for carry but only of certain types of guns. Well, that's all I needed as the most recent national news event was done with a 7+1 capacity 1911. I explained that to him and it blew his mind. He assumed it had to have been an AR, because that's what's always in the news. I did forget to leave my reload mags at home, so I had an effective teaching tool. I asked him directly, what's the difference between four 6 round Glock 43 mags and one 22 round Glock .40 mag? The guy in SC had multiple 7 rounders, whose to say I couldn't carry a bunch of small mags too? He started to get it. I then went on and explained how the '68 gun control act hurt poor minorities and how it was really meant to keep people like him from owning guns, so every time gun control comes up as a big campaign issue you have to ask "who are they trying to control" because it for damn sure ain't the gun. End of the day, he realized why it's important to stand on the side of freedom and why I personally feel a line in the sand needs to be drawn. No more infringements. It's time the other side does some "compromising." Good day overall.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

2008 vs. 2015

Yep. It is old but the people who ided themselves as pa cops were pretty good, even then.

[Bang]

There is a police department here in lower Bucks that, from what I understand, has kept handguns that do not show ownership on PSPs "registration". After some arbitrary time period they are destroyed. I sent the guy in charge the law and suggested he stop the practice before he became part of a suit or possible arrest. That was a week ago. No response. Last year when I tried to discuss it with him in person, he walked away from me. Old habits die hard.

[bluetrane2028]

There is a police department here in lower Bucks that, from what I understand, has kept handguns that do not show ownership on PSPs "registration". After some arbitrary time period they are destroyed. I sent the guy in charge the law and suggested he stop the practice before he became part of a suit or possible arrest. That was a week ago. No response. Last year when I tried to discuss it with him in person, he walked away from me. Old habits die hard.

So if I carried my dad's old J frame, which was bought before '68, and it was found on me, it would hit the smelter? That guy can kiss the very fattest part of my ass.

[Brick]

There is a police department here in lower Bucks that, from what I understand, has kept handguns that do not show ownership on PSPs "registration". After some arbitrary time period they are destroyed. I sent the guy in charge the law and suggested he stop the practice before he became part of a suit or possible arrest. That was a week ago. No response. Last year when I tried to discuss it with him in person, he walked away from me. Old habits die hard.

So if I was carrying any of the handguns I bought legally in NYS (and still have paperwork for) they'd seize and destroy them? And they haven't been brought to court yet?

[seaswine]

Hard to believe this guy hasn't had to face any repercussion yet. However, I'd like to believe that If the elements of this story are true, he most definitely will. Simply a matter of time... Hopefully