Denied LTCF Renewal in Lackawanna (would I have been?)

[Bruce]

*I'm still a little upset, so please forgive my grammar/spelling/punctuation - or if I leave anything out.

I visited the Lackawanna Sheriff’s office today with the intention of renewing my LTCF. Before I describe what happened today, a bit of background:

I had moved from Wayne County (where my LTCF was originally issued) to Lackawanna County some time ago. I stopped in to the Lackawanna Co. Sheriff’s Office to get my “address changed” several months ago. My license was not due to expire until August.

There were some people there ahead of me and it took 40 minutes before I was asked (by a woman not in uniform), “What are you here for?” I replied, “To get my address changed on my firearms license.” She responded, “You don’t need to do that. Just come back when your license expires.” I said, “I’ll come back in the summer then.” I left.

Her response troubled me a bit. I was concerned that I would be *forced* to let my license expire then re-apply for a brand new one.

I asked around and it was suggested that they might just want the expiration date to be a little closer before renewing. I was still concerned, but felt better about it.

As there is less than a month left on my LTCF before it expires, I managed to get a ‘day off’ from work this week (today) and go down to get my license renewed.

I was prepared to *prove* that I did indeed live at my new address; I had my driver license (which I changed the address some time ago), and a couple of utility bills. I was prepared to *prove* who I was; I had my social security card and a birth certificate.

I was not “prepared” to re-apply for a new LTCF.
When I walked in to the Sheriff’s office, I noticed the sign on the wall at the entrance. Among other things, it read: “Gun Permits”. I will try to recall what was said and the events the best I can.

When I approached the window, a uniformed deputy asked “What are you here for?” as she got up from her desk and approached the window.

Me: “I’m here to renew my gun permit.” (I had just read it, so I said this without realizing it)

Deputy: “Follow me down to the other window.” (I followed her down to a sliding window). “Here’s an application,” (which I took from her) “there’s a clipboard and pens.” (she pointed to a bin containing clipboards and pens) “Take a seat on the bench and fill out the application.”

Me: “I’m not here to apply for a new license; I want to *renew* a license that I have.”

Deputy: “That doesn’t matter. Everyone has to fill out the entire application and go through the full background checks. And you will have to use two references from Lackawanna County.”

Me: “Are you *sure* they have to be from Lackawanna?”

Deputy: “That’s what it says on the application (pointing to the application) right there.”

Me: “I’m not sure I have two references from Lackawanna.”

Deputy: “Do you live in Lackawanna?”

Me: “Yes, I do.”

Deputy: “Well, that is what is on the application. You are required to give two references from Lackawanna.”

Me: “Um… You know what? I don’t think I will be renewing my license today.” (handing back the application - it occurred to me that if my application was *denied* that such a thing would haunt me)

Deputy: “Take that home with you. (rejecting the application) Do you have your license on you?”

Me: (I had a bad gut feeling) “Yes, I do.”

Deputy: “Can I see it please?”

Me: (my gut told me to say “no”, but I asked) “Why?”

Deputy: “I want to make sure it isn’t expired.”

I don’t know what made me do it, but I handed her my LTCF. She studied it long enough to memorize the dates and either my name or my license number (possibly the entire license). She handed it back to me and said “Thanks.” I said, “Thank you” and left.

My fear now is that, as this deputy led me to believe, there is no “renewal”, per se, in Lackawanna County and I will be forced to wait the full 45 days from the day I do *renew* my license; which will mean, at this point, I will be without my license for at least a month this summer. Most of the time I carry (90-95%) is in a vehicle, so Open Carry without my license is fairly useless to me.

Can they *legally* refuse to ‘renew’ my un-expired license; or, rather, force me to re-apply for a new license before my current license expires?

At this moment, I can only think of one Lackawanna resident that I can use as a reference. Can they deny my *application* because I cannot supply two references from Lackawanna?

I 'lost' a lot of much needed money by not being scheduled for work today *and* I got nothing accomplished but a gut-full of grief. I get the feeling I am going to 'lose' even more money over this.

I would appreciate any useful information and constructive criticism.
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[normanvin]

I live in luzerne county. Every time I went to renew they used the same form for renewal as the application for a new one.

[headcase]

That is just how it works bro. You reapply every time. The statute allows for carry as long as you are within six months of expiration, so don't worry about the delay.

Pm sent

[Bruce]

I live in luzerne county. Every time I went to renew they used the same form for renewal as the application for a new one.

Do they *require* references and, if so, must those references be from Luzerne? And (more importantly) must you wait the full 45 days before you receive your *renewed* license?
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[VariableFeedback]

I don't think that any county as a different form for renewal vs. new application.

I also don't know if you can renew a permit issued in Wayne county in Lackawanna.

However, I believe that PA has a grace period after a permit expires for 45 (?) days until the new permit is issued, as long as you have not become a prohibited person. I can't cite the UFA right now, but maybe somebody else can.

[Bruce]

That is just how it works bro. You reapply every time. The statute allows for carry as long as you are within six months of expiration, so don't worry about the delay.

Your saying I have six months *after* my license expires? That surprises me. It seems dubious.
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[normanvin]

Do they *require* references and, if so, must those references be from Luzerne? And (more importantly) must you wait the full 45 days before you receive your *renewed* license?
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Here is the Luzerne county form.
http://www.luzernecounty.org/content...ONfillable.pdf

It says two references not family members.

[normanvin]

Your saying I have six months *after* my license expires? That surprises me. It seems dubious.
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I believe it is before your old one runs out.

[headcase]

Your saying I have six months *after* my license expires? That surprises me. It seems dubious.
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Please feel free to look up the statute on your own. I am sure Gnbrotz or Pa. Patriot will back up my assertion. I don't have time at the moment. I do not know of any county that issues, "renewals", like a drivers license. You need to go through the same process as a new applicant every time you renew. The fact that you are already a LTCF holder may cut their investigation time, or not. If your county does instant issues, then you will get your "renewal" instantly. If they do the whole 45 day thing, that's what you can expect. Whatever the normal process is, it is the same whether you are applying for the first time, or are renewing.

OASN~ The application is statewide. The "refs must be county residents" is a local requirement. I suggest you get two county refs or you will very likely have your application rejected.

[Bruce]

OASN~ The application is statewide. The "refs must be county residents" is a local requirement. I suggest you get two county refs or you will very likely have your application rejected.

This answers my original question - would I have been denied *renewal* (ie: a license).
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