What the World Needs Now...

[DarthJoe]

No, it's not love (sorry for all your Burt Baccarat fans out there). Rather, what everybody needs is a healthy dose of understanding.

Before I begin my rant, let me say that while I did just register on the forum, I have been following everything for a few months now. I am a proud firearm owner and I very much support everything that this web page is about. In fact, it was this webpage that prompted me to get my LTCF. All I have to do now is convice the wife to let me buy a pistol... but thats another story.

Anyways... I think that in light of recent events and the many postings about it, I would drop my two cents in. The biggest problem right now is a lack of understanding, and this problem affects both sides of just about every posting on this forum - however one side definately holds the majority. The most recent (we all know what it is) the most obvious lack of understanding is on the part of the LEO who clearly had a lack of knowledge of the law (they call this ignorance where I come from...). They abused their power, and good law abiding citizens had to pay for it.

But from another point of view, their may be some lack of understanding with the individuals involved. Now, I wasn't there, and if I have any details wrong, please let me know. But one thing I don't know if anybody is taking into account is how such a thing may have looked to the average schmo eating dinner. It may not have looked like a group of patriotic Americans exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. Instead, it may have looked like a bunch of people openly carrying guns. Whoever made the complaint may have had a bad experience with firearms and could have a legitimate fear. Now, how they handled their fear was irrational and innappropriate (fears have a way of doing that to people).

This entire website has provided me with a wealth of knowledge, most of which I was ignorant of until I took a little initiative and did some reading. We can't expect everyone to be like that.

Please don't get me wrong, I think its a travesty what happend to PAPatriot, and to everyone who had a bad experience OC'ing or CC'ing. And while I feel that the public (and apparently some LEO's) need to be more educated on the law, we will just have to accept that some people are quite content to live in ignorance. I just hope that this type of ignorance doesn't get worse, doesn't spread, and doesn't spawn an irrational fear of safe LEGAL firearm practices. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening...

[pex]

But one thing I don't know if anybody is taking into account is how such a thing may have looked to the average schmo eating dinner. It may not have looked like a group of patriotic Americans exercising their 2nd Amendment rights.

I don't supposed they also considered that the fryer could have blown up. Did they call the police on the cooks?

[stephpd]

Part of the reason that some open carry is to educate the public regarding the law. Someone asks why you have a gun and you tell the is my right, it's legal, and it's dangerous out there and I feel a need to protect myself against the criminals. Spread the word, most people, including myself, didn't know the laws.

The cure for ignorance is knowledge.

[lprgcFrank]

Every OC experience is an educational opportunity for someone :-)

[Kendrickson]

I don't supposed they also considered that the fryer could have blown up. Did they call the police on the cooks?

I don't see the need for sarcasm. He wrote a thoughtful post making a legitimate point. Maybe someone has had a bad experience and is acting on an irrational fear. He was clear that he did not agree with the way the police handled the situation, and I take him at his word on that.

[TaurusGuy]

But one thing I don't know if anybody is taking into account is how such a thing may have looked to the average schmo eating dinner. It may not have looked like a group of patriotic Americans exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. Instead, it may have looked like a bunch of people openly carrying guns. Whoever made the complaint may have had a bad experience with firearms and could have a legitimate fear. Now, how they handled their fear was irrational and innappropriate (fears have a way of doing that to people).

I said it in another thread and I'll say it again...I don't think any of us really have a problem with whoever called on us. I blew off steam about it and all but really...if they were worried, sure how can you blame them really for calling the cops?

The problem was the cops got there and did what they did instead of handling it the way they should have handled it.

On top of all that...we were with our families. I had my wife and my 7 year old daughter. DC had his wife and kids...Patriot had his....Jahwarrior had his kids too...and others had theirs. Wow! I bet we were the epitome of scary people! I bet I was a terrifying sight walking around that buffet holding my 7 year old and laughing with her. Yep...it was pretty clear that we all were planning on eating and then when we were done, and everyone had gotten a real good look at us...we were planning on shooting the place up.

Really now...I understand people being scared....but at what point does reason or common sense take over? All they had to do was look at us.

[toysrubi]

And while I feel that the public (and apparently some LEO's) need to be more educated on the law, we will just have to accept that some people are quite content to live in ignorance. I just hope that this type of ignorance doesn't get worse, doesn't spread, and doesn't spawn an irrational fear of safe LEGAL firearm practices. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening...

DarthJoe, while I agree some people choose to live in ignorance and while personally I think it's a sad way to live, it is their right to choose that path. The LEO's on the other hand do not get to live that choice when it comes to what the laws of the commonwealth are. I believe that they chose Law enforcement as a career choice and are therefore tasked to enforce the Constitution and the Laws of Pennsylvania. It is because of this they loose the ability to choose ignorance and must be held accountable for their actions.

[ThomasJ]

...is love, sweet love?

[headcase]

I don't see the need for sarcasm. He wrote a thoughtful post making a legitimate point. Maybe someone has had a bad experience and is acting on an irrational fear. He was clear that he did not agree with the way the police handled the situation, and I take him at his word on that.

Pex was not being sarcastic to the OP, it was directed toward the original caller. He was using an analogy to make his point, as he often does.

[DarthJoe]

The tricky thing with fear is that common sense and rationalism usually don't come into effect until much later. And yes, even though your intentions were good and everybody there meant no harm, it can still be misinterpreted. People make mistakes. Ignorant people make more mistakes. Ignorant people who are afraid make LOTS of mistakes. Such is life. I'm not saying what they did was right, wrong, good, bad...we are all adults here and we can form our own opinions. I'm just pointing out one particular point of view.