NO OC in Hazleton Walmart

[schr8er2000]

Went this morning to get a new battery for my riding mower to cut the grass before I go in for surgery on Wed. Got the battery ok and went to the sporting goods department to check out a couple of things. A man there was looking at rifles, he wanted to start hunting this year, so I was explaining the "PROCESS" of getting the rifle. Then a man came up to me and stated that he was store security and that I HAD to leave the store RIGHT NOW since I was OC'ing. I asked why and he said its against the law. I explained that it is not against the law in the state of PA. He then stated that since this is private property I would have to leave immediately. I then asked if I were to cover it up if I could finish talking with the gentleman who was thinking about purchasing a rifle. He said no.. I proceeded to exit the building and asked for his name... he said "Joe". I asked "Joe What ?"... He said "Just Joe". I then asked if he had some type of identification to prove to me that he was indeed store security. He just continued to walk away. I left the store, placed my handgun in the truck ( locked in case ) and grabbed a PAFOA pamphlet and went back into the store.
I met with the store manager and explained the situation to him. As I was finishing explaining the PA laws to this man ( Had name tag of James)..the "security guard" again came up. He asked if I still had my firearm on me and I told him "NO" and showed my empty holster. After lengthy conversation the security guard said that I was in violation of law by "brandishing" a weapon. I told him that according to PA state law I was completely within my rights to carry openly. I then asked if there was any signs stating that firearms were not allowed in Wal Mart... they both said "NO'.. "There use to be but since the remodeling they have not been put back up."

I gave the manager the pamphlet and explained the legal rights of a person to carry in the state of Pennsylvania and that I felt I was being wrongly singled out. The guard ( Joe Lions (SP)) said that they had received numerous complaints about "a man with a gun."

Well to cut this short before I go to 28 pages... I left again stating that I had the legal right to carry openly and that if the policy of Wal Mart is to infringe on my legal right that I would shop elsewhere where the do not stop me from openly carrying.

QUESTIONS: 1.) Should I have allowed the security guard to call the State Police ( which he said he would do if I continued to confront them )????
2.) Should I have asked for a refund of my purchase money and left?

Thanks for reading my ranting......

Paul

[wewo]

no and yes. If their lawnmower batteries are like their car batteries you are better off getting one elsewhere anyway. You did the right thing, you had a 50/50 chance of getting an uninformed LEO who would only support Just Joe's conclusion.

[Pa. Patriot]

...

QUESTIONS: 1.) Should I have allowed the security guard to call the State Police ( which he said he would do if I continued to confront them )????
2.) Should I have asked for a refund of my purchase money and left?

Answers:
1) No. Bottom line is it is private property. They can ask you to leave because your shirt is wrinkled if they please. You MUST leave or else you will (legitimately) face trespass charges.

2) Personal decision. I personally would. If they have an irrational policy of not allowing customers to carry I would rather another biz get my money.

[Pa. Patriot]

...you had a 50/50 chance of getting an uninformed LEO who would only support Just Joe's conclusion.

I disagree with the odds, most LEO seems to know the law here in NEPA, in my experience. More importantly, and to the point, he had no choice but to leave or else he would have faced trespass charges.
It matters not that "Joe" was ignorant of the legality of OC in PA. It only matters that you were asked to leave. Period.

[schr8er2000]

Thats what I thought.. and that is why I DID leave. But I felt that I should inform them of the laws by presenting them a copy of the Pamphlet. At least I got to voice my opinion and maybe make them aware of the rights. I WILL however shop elsewhere from now on... and thanks for the input...... I appreciate it...

Paul

[headcase]

Well that blows I would have indeed asked for my money back. I think I may have also told "joe", that I had complied with his direction as it was private property, and now he would leave me be while I received my refund and spoke with the manager or I would be calling the PSP to have him charged with harrassment. I probably would have also mentioned in passing, that it is too bad there aren't any laws against stupidity, as he would surely be doing life.

[Pa. Patriot]

Some more commentary on your report.>>>

....Then a man came up to me and stated that he was store security and that I HAD to leave the store RIGHT NOW since I was OC'ing. I asked why and he said its against the law. I explained that it is not against the law in the state of PA. He then stated that since this is private property I would have to leave immediately.

As mentiuoned prior post, right here is where the convo needs to end. "Joe's" knowledge of the law is irrelevant.

...The guard ( Joe Lions) said that they had received numerous complaints about "a man with a gun."

Plain and simple, he's a liar.
The manager/security guy's rutinely say this (read the encounter threads here and OCDO). It's 100% BS.
How does a shopper know "Joe" is security? LOL What a a-hole.

HE, and HE alone had a problem with it. I would complain to WM corporate. They allow the regional/store managers to set whatever policy they like. Problem with this WM is that the manager does not understand PA law (thanks to Joe) so he is not going to make an informed decision.

As an aside, I OC'd in the W. Hazleton WM once, last summer/fall.

Of course I've OC's in the WB store dozens of times. Never any complaints.

[steveforopen]

We all know Wal-mart's policy is to mirror state policy.

Must start calling to get this worked out.

[Pa. Patriot]

We all know Wal-mart's policy is to mirror state policy.

Corporate. But store & regional mangers are allowed to make their own per corp.

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

That’s nuts!

I OC so often in WAL-MART anymore that I don’t even report out on it!
My wife and I were in the Dickson City Wal-Mart yesterday…twice.

I was OC’ing. We bought a new Sony digital camera and, upon arrival at home, we realized that the camera was just battery operated…not rechargeable.
We don’t go for that.

So back to Wal-mart we trek to return the just purchased camera. Apparently, in order to return a camera, someone from photo has to come to service and inspect it to make sure it’s in still ‘new’ complete condition.

My wife and I have known one of the store managers (his name is Anad) since my oldest daughter was born (8yrs ago). Anad has seen me OC multiple times to include last evening when he came in to find out what was wrong (We were standing at customer service for a while (grrrrr!) b/c the photo dude had to get someone to cover for his absence. Anad walked over from the Front End Service Podium to see what’s up. Not a peep out of him.

Tania and I also know the Loss Prevention Officer there. He has seen me OC many many times as well.

I will add, though, that BOTH of these individuals have known me and my family for YEARS before I started OC’ing.

Lemme tell you……it’s kinda sad – You know you shop at Wal-Mart too much when one of the cashiers buys a gift for your newborn! Honest to goodness! We shop there so often and the cashier’s get to know us and the kids. My wife and I are talkative. The one cashier actually bought a gift for my 3rd child once he was born!

Crazy, eh?!?