AOW for concealed carry?

[Pa. Patriot]

Sorry - I was wondering more about the NFA classification of that particular weapon. I have a hard time believing that a 12 gauge shotgun with a 6.5" barrel and an overall length of 16" would NOT be classified as a SBS and require the $200 tax stamp.

Ah, I see...

The Serbu is an "AOW" (Any Other Weapon).
NOT an SBS.

An AOW requires a $200 making tax and a $5 transfer tax.

[lildobe]

Ah, I see...

The Serbu is an "AOW" (Any Other Weapon).
NOT an SBS.

An AOW requires a $200 making tax and a $5 transfer tax.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up... now... why?

(I know, I'm a pain)

Why is it classified as an AOW if it fits the description of a SBS?

[Rick O'Shea]

Why is it classified as an AOW if it fits the description of a SBS?

SBS has a stock. An AOW has a pistol grip and can only have a pistol grip on it.

As I understand it, you can't manufacture an AOW just by cutting down a stocked shotgun and putting on a pistol grip, it has to start with a receiver that has never had a stock on it (either a bare receiver or a shotgun that came from the factory with a pistol grip). If the receiver had a stock on it at any point, it could not be made into an AOW only an SBS.

I think the logic behind this is once a conventional stock is put on the receiver, it's a conventional shotgun; cut down a conventional shotgun below the min barrel or overall length and it becomes an SBS.

If a stock were to be put on an AOW, it would become an SBS.

Put a pistol grip on an SBS, however, and it's still an SBS.

[headcase]

That's what I was wondering. After seeing it, it looked like a pistol grip shotgun with a short barrel. I would think it would be a SBS, but I am not an FFL and no experience with classifications.

[Kenshin]

Ah, I see...

The Serbu is an "AOW" (Any Other Weapon).
NOT an SBS.

An AOW requires a $200 making tax and a $5 transfer tax.

This is where i get confused. If you don't make it, you only have to pay the 5$ transfer tax? While the actual dealer or manufacture has already paid the 200$ or can manufacture it because they have the license...

Or am i getting it wrong and you pay the total 205$?

[Pa. Patriot]

This is where i get confused. If you don't make it, you only have to pay the 5$ transfer tax? While the actual dealer or manufacture has already paid the 200$ or can manufacture it because they have the license...

Or am i getting it wrong and you pay the total 205$?

If you "manufacture" it it is $200 on a ATF Form-1

If someone else manufactured it and you are buying it then it's a $5 transfer tax.

[Rick O'Shea]

This is where i get confused. If you don't make it, you only have to pay the 5$ transfer tax? While the actual dealer or manufacture has already paid the 200$ or can manufacture it because they have the license...

Or am i getting it wrong and you pay the total 205$?

If you purchased an AOW from an FFL any manufacturing tax would be included in the selling price, you would only "pay" the $5 AOW transfer tax.

[LittleRedToyota]

Here is the definition of "firearm" for the purposes of what you can carry with a LTCF


Since an AOW is NOT a pistol, SBR, SBS, I am going to say that I think the answer is no.

but, unless i am missing something, there is nothing in the law anywhere that says you cannot carry (openly or concealed) anything that does not fit the definition of firearm.

the UFA does not say "if you have an LTCF, you can CC these specific weapons, but not any others".

rather, it says "if you do not have an LTCF, you cannot CC these specifc weapons." it doesn't say anything about CCing other types of weapons (except that you cannot carry them loaded in a vehicle).

you can legally walk around with a long gun hidden under your coat. and you don't even need an LTCF to do it. the reason you can legally do it is that there is simply no law against it.

likewise, if you can legally own an AOW, you can CC it...unless i have missed some section of law that specifically makes doing so illegal (which is possible).

[aryfrosty]

Shades of Ricardo Tubbs and his Ithaca "Stakeout" 20 gauge. Just my opinion but whenever my AOW shorty goes out of the house for a range trip I always carry a certified copy of my stamp. Can you imagine the standard, "not sure about anything about any gun", police officer catching a look at a shorty? You'd probably get detained, restrained, retrained and then get to soak your heels in a holding cell while they looked for a prosecutor to decide whether you're legal or not. Having said that, I also believe it isn't covered by a CCW.

[JayBell]

to clear up some false info and misconceptions in this thread....

1. the Serbu Shorty comes in AOW or SBS version, your choice, if you want SBS, you pay a $200 tax and can put a pistolgrip OR a buttsock on it. if AOW, its a $5 transfer tax, and can NOT have a buttstock on it.

2. AOWs come in many forms, form disguised guns like pen and cane guns, briefcase guns, wallet holsters that allow the gun to be fired without removing it, AND, ONE buttstocked model, which is a combination gun (like a 12ga/223 varmint gun) thast manually reloaded and has barrels between 12 and 15"

3. The serbu shorty AOW is classified as an AOW due to the fact that it is a SMOOTH BORE PISTOL thus is FULLY LEGAL for CW in PA (even if its unwise to do so), and is NOT classified as an AOW due to the foregrip.

4. As making tax, its $200 to MAKE any NFA weapon aside from a MG on a form 1. so your "buy 2 and make them " is gonna be a problem, monetarily, and unless you can weld and mill, refinsh, etc, theres another problem

Also, to MAKE an AOW, you must either start with a virgin receiver, or a shotgun that has never had a buttstock on it, like a Mossberg cruiser or something.

so yeah, you can carry it in PA, as its a smooth bore pistol.
I've carried mine before, but overall, i think its unwise to carry NFA, legal or not, yer gonna get killed in court if you have to use it.