What disqualifies me.

**Dnic** · January 13th, 2011, 01:40 AM

As title reads. I am looking into getting my LTCF and was wounder what things could disqualify me.

Age?
Any criminal charges?
Do you have to have a valid reason on why you want to get a LTCF?

Why i ask this is because I have been charged with M2 Reckless Endangerment when i was 18. I feel that will stop me from never being able to get a permit. Any help would be great. If you need to no more info just ask kinda going out on a limb on this one.

**headcase** · January 13th, 2011, 02:06 AM

At the top of every page there is a link to the reference library. Click it, click statutes, then read 6105 and 6109.

It doesn't matter what you were charged with, it matters what you were convicted of and how long the maximum possible sentence was-not what you were sentenced to. Assuming you were convicted or plead to anything, of course.

An arrest doesn't disqualify you, although it may lead a sheriff to deem you likely to act in a dangerous manner.

**Dnic** · January 13th, 2011, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by headcase

At the top of every page there is a link to the reference library. Click it, click statutes, then read 6105 and 6109.

It doesn't matter what you were charged with, it matters what you were convicted of and how long the maximum possible sentence was-not what you were sentenced to. Assuming you were convicted or plead to anything, of course.

An arrest doesn't disqualify you, although it may lead a sheriff to deem you likely to act in a dangerous manner.

Thanks for the info. I just found out that M2s in PA are a MAX of 2 years in prison. So as you said " it matters what you were convicted of and how long the maximum possible sentence was-not what you were sentenced to" it goes bye what I could have been charged with not what I was charged with. Where can I find out info on what there M2 disqualifications are. If I am disqualified for my M2 how do I redeem my self to be able to qualify again?

Thanks for all the info and help.

EDIT. After reading 6105 again no where on there does reckless Endangerment disqualify me. So does that mean even since I plead guilty to a M2 don't necessarily mean I am disqualified. It all depends on the crime i was charged with to get the M2?

PS. I am learning so much about PA's laws. Kinda fun

**MostlyHarmless** · January 13th, 2011, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by Dnic

Thanks for the info. I just found out that M2s in PA are a MAX of 2 years in prison. So as you said " it matters what you were convicted of and how long the maximum possible sentence was-not what you were sentenced to" it goes bye what I could have been charged with not what I was charged with. Where can I find out info on what there M2 disqualifications are. If I am disqualified for my M2 how do I redeem my self to be able to qualify again?

Thanks for all the info and help.

EDIT. After reading 6105 again no where on there does reckless Endangerment disqualify me. So does that mean even since I plead guilty to a M2 don't necessarily mean I am disqualified. It all depends on the crime i was charged with to get the M2?

PS. I am learning so much about PA's laws. Kinda fun

As HC said, it doesn't matter what you were or could have been "charged" with.

The conviction or plea part is what sticks. You plead guilty to a M2. Is that actually one of the enumerated offenses? If that disqualifies you, consult a pro-2A lawyer as to what options you have to clean that up, if any. Pennsylvania is a relatively gun friendly state. But it is also very unforgiving.

Jan

**headcase** · January 13th, 2011, 04:41 AM

ETA~I was proven to be incorrect

**TaurusPT145** · January 13th, 2011, 10:18 AM

At least in Florida, there is a difference if the person pleads guilty or pleads no contest. Pleading guilty would bar you, pleading no contest would not bar you. Something silly like that. Even if you did not serve any time, but could have served time it can bar you also. It gets really tricky and you need to hire a lawyer that specializes in this stuff. And make sure its a pro-gun lawyer, an NRA member or something like that.

I say, go buy a gun (if you don't need a license in your state to purchase). If the sale goes through, you have a pretty good chance of getting a permit. You could also just apply for the permit and hope for the best. Worst case, you lose some money and get a denial. Not like they arrest you for failing a background check. I know how you feel though. I didn't want to apply for my NY permit until I ran my own prints and did my own background check to see what would come up (I had been a victim of identity theft). But then I felt like an idiot for waiting so long to apply for it.

**jcabin** · January 13th, 2011, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by TaurusPT145

Not like they arrest you for failing a background check. I know how you feel though.

Actually they can, and it says so right on the form 4473. If you knowingly fill the application out falsly when you know you are prohibited you can face criminal prosecution.

**MDJschool** · January 13th, 2011, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Dnic

Age?

"An individual who is 21 years of age or older may apply to a sheriff for a license to carry a firearm concealed on or about his person or in a vehicle within this Commonwealth." 18 Pa.C.S. 6109(b).

Originally Posted by Dnic

Any criminal charges?

"A license shall not be issued to any of the following:" 18 Pa.C.S. 6109(e)(1).
(i) An individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety.
(ii) An individual who has been convicted of an offense under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L. 233, No. 64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act. [FN1]
(iii) An individual convicted of a crime enumerated in section 6105.
(iv) An individual who, within the past ten years, has been adjudicated delinquent for a crime enumerated in section 6105 or for an offense under The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act.
(v) An individual who is not of sound mind or who has ever been committed to a mental institution.
(vi) An individual who is addicted to or is an unlawful user of marijuana or a stimulant, depressant or narcotic drug.
(vii) An individual who is a habitual drunkard.
(viii) An individual who is charged with or has been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year except as provided for in section 6123 (relating to waiver of disability or pardons).
(ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).
(x) An alien who is illegally in the United States.
(xi) An individual who has been discharged from the armed forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions.
(xii) An individual who is a fugitive from justice. This subparagraph does not apply to an individual whose fugitive status is based upon nonmoving or moving summary offense under Title 75 (relating to vehicles).
(xiii) An individual who is otherwise prohibited from possessing, using, manufacturing, controlling, purchasing, selling or transferring a firearm as provided by section 6105.
(xiv) An individual who is prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm under the statutes of the United States.

Do you have to have a valid reason on why you want to get a LTCF?

Yes, but the reason is never validated. (Do, however, note that a false reason is unsworn falsification...)
"One of the following reasons for obtaining a firearm license shall be set forth in the application: self-defense, employment, hunting and fishing, target shooting, gun collecting or another proper reason." 18 Pa.C.S. 6109(c).

Why i ask this is because I have been charged with M2 Reckless Endangerment when i was 18.

Originally Posted by Dnic

So does that mean even since I plead guilty to a M2 don't necessarily mean I am disqualified.

You should check your docket (assuming the charge is anywhere but Pittsburgh/Philly) at http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/CP.aspx to confirm the disposition of your case. You can also have the PSP provide you with the data they've retained through http://epatch.state.pa.us, for $10.

The other thing to consider is whether Reckless Endangerment can ever be considered a crime of domestic violence, if the facts of the alleged incident apply. I no longer remember whether the burden is to have the element of domestic violence in the offense or only stating it as a fact in the information. If you think there is any possibility your incident could have been related to domestic violence, see Hesse v. Pennsylvania State Police, 850 A. 2d 829 (Pa.Cmwlth. 2004) but then see US v. Hayes, 129 S. Ct. 1079 (2009), for example.

Originally Posted by jcabin

Actually they can, and it says so right on the form 4473. If you knowingly fill the application out falsly when you know you are prohibited you can face criminal prosecution.

A person can fill out an application "true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief[,] understand[ing] that, if I knowingly make any false statements herein . . ."

An application for a PA LTCF is not an ATF Form 4473. An application can be filled out to the best of one's knowledge and belief and the applicant can still be denied. So aside from the probability that people being denied aren't be arrested as a matter of executive laziness, being denied isn't what subjects one to criminal liability. It's unsworn falsification to law enforcement that does.

I feel that will stop me from never being able to get a permit.

It's the attitude that you'll never lie down and be stepped upon that will stop you from never being able to get a permit!

**headcase** · January 13th, 2011, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Deadpan

That does not apply to state misdemeanors, for which the possible sentence must be more than 2 years to be prohibiting- § 921(a)(20). I think you're correct with everything else.

Ah, good find, thanks.

ETA~ 6102 defines a sentence completely differently then the sentence reads in 6109. learn something new everyday...

**MDJschool** · January 13th, 2011, 06:20 PM

I do know for a fact that if you plead guilty to a M2, you are prohibited from obtaining a License To Carry Firearms, again due to the possible penalty exceeding imprisonment for one year

18 Pa.C.S. 6109(e)(1)(viii):
An individual who is charged with or has been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year except as provided for in section 6123 (relating to waiver of disability or pardons).
18 Pa.C.S. 6102:
“Crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year.”
The term does not include any of the following:
(1) Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust, unfair trade practices, restraints on trade or regulation of business.
(2) State offenses classified as misdemeanors and punishable by a term of imprisonment not to exceed two years.

I guess maybe you could say that the term in 6109 isn't the one in 6102 because there's a "for a term" in there...