FFL and private rifle sales

[shooter357]

If a FFL holder wanted to sell one of their own private rifles, would they have to fill out the paper work or could it be done as the rest of us would do it as a simple FTF?

[markshere2]

If it's in their book, they have to do paperwork to show where it went.

If not - all laws apply.

[PaBimmerGuy]

ffls can transfer any gun on their books to their private collection with a note in there bound book. if they want to sell it they have to follow state laws for private sales and keep a registry of guns that they sell. i also think that they have to have the gun in their private collection for one year.

this only applies to ffls that are individuals and not companies or corporations.

[rflynn]

It all depends on how the FFl sets up his business. But those that are set up as a sole proprietor type (and don't quote me) not a corp. Can have a casual sale of a long gun (FTF) after the long gun has been logged into their personal A&D book for more than one year.

A dealer needs to keep a A&D book for his shop as well as one for his personal firearms.

I run everything threw my shop.

[Pa. Patriot]

If it's in their book, they have to do paperwork to show where it went.

If not - all laws apply.

Not quite correct.

ffls can transfer any gun on their books to their private collection with a note in there bound book.

Correct.

... if they want to sell it they have to follow state laws for private sales and keep a registry of guns that they sell.

Not quite correct.

... i also think that they have to have the gun in their private collection for one year.

not quite correct.

...this only applies to ffls that are individuals and not companies or corporations.

False

But those that are set up as a sole proprietor type (and don't quote me) not a corp. Can have a casual sale of a long gun (FTF) after the long gun has been logged into their personal A&D book for more than one year.

More too it than that, see below conditions from ATF FAQ


Folks, here is the ATF Faq on this:

Q. Do these recordkeeping requirements
apply to the sale of personal firearms?

A. Under certain circumstances, a licensed
dealer is exempt from the requirements to
complete an ATF Form 4473 and to initiate
a background check under the Brady law
when selling a firearm from his or her
personal firearms collection. 18 U.S.C.
923(c) and 27 CFR 478.125a. Transfers of
personal firearms are exempt from these
requirements only if the following
conditions are met:

1. First, the licensee must have recorded
in the bound book the acquisition of
the firearm.

2. Second, the licensee must have
recorded in the bound book, as a
disposition, the transfer of the firearm
from the business inventory to the personal firearms collection or other
acquisition of the personal firearm.

3. Third, the licensee must have maintained
the firearm as part of his or her personal
firearms collection for 1 year from the
date the firearm was transferred to the
personal collection, as shown in the
bound book.

4. Finally, the licensee must record the
transfer in his or her disposition records
of personal firearms, in the format set
forth in the regulations. This means that
the licensee must record, from his or her
personal collection, specified identifying
information about the firearm; the date
of the sale or other disposition; and the
name, address, and date of birth of the
transferee (or, if the transferee is a
licensee, the name and business address
of the transferee). In addition, the
licensee shall cause any unlicensed
transferee to be identified in any manner
customarily used in commercial
transactions (e.g., a driver’s license).

Due to the above conditions, most FFLs simply log the firearm back into their bound book and process the same as any other firearm as CYA.

[rflynn]

Not quite correct.




Correct.



Not quite correct.



not quite correct.



False



More too it than that, see below conditions from ATF FAQ


Folks, here is the ATF Faq on this:

Q. Do these recordkeeping requirements
apply to the sale of personal firearms?

A. Under certain circumstances, a licensed
dealer is exempt from the requirements to
complete an ATF Form 4473 and to initiate
a background check under the Brady law
when selling a firearm from his or her
personal firearms collection. 18 U.S.C.
923(c) and 27 CFR 478.125a. Transfers of
personal firearms are exempt from these
requirements only if the following
conditions are met:

1. First, the licensee must have recorded
in the bound book the acquisition of
the firearm.

2. Second, the licensee must have
recorded in the bound book, as a
disposition, the transfer of the firearm
from the business inventory to the personal firearms collection or other
acquisition of the personal firearm.

3. Third, the licensee must have maintained
the firearm as part of his or her personal
firearms collection for 1 year from the
date the firearm was transferred to the
personal collection, as shown in the
bound book.

4. Finally, the licensee must record the
transfer in his or her disposition records
of personal firearms, in the format set
forth in the regulations. This means that
the licensee must record, from his or her
personal collection, specified identifying
information about the firearm; the date
of the sale or other disposition; and the
name, address, and date of birth of the
transferee (or, if the transferee is a
licensee, the name and business address
of the transferee). In addition, the
licensee shall cause any unlicensed
transferee to be identified in any manner
customarily used in commercial
transactions (e.g., a driver’s license).

Due to the above conditions, most FFLs simply log the firearm back into their bound book and process the same as any other firearm as CYA.

Did i say anything different? I just didn't give the long winded response

Anyway good to see you Rich! Hope all is well!

[PaBimmerGuy]

papatriot

everything you quoted backed up what i said. so whats not quite correct.

if an ffl is a sole propietorship thats an individual. if the ffl is a corporation the owner cannot transfer guns to himself without a 4473 because he and the company are too different things.

the ffl must keep it in his personal collection for 1 year.

"Finally, the licensee must record the transfer in his or her disposition records of personal firearms, in the format set forth in the regulations"

this is different from the bound book.

i guess the only thing that doesnt follow by state law is the requirement for id. but if state law doesn't permit private transfers you cant do it unless you put it back into your bound book.

[PaBimmerGuy]

It all depends . . ..

i said the same thing with different words but a moderator says were wrong so were wrong.

[rflynn]

i said the same thing with different words but a moderator says were wrong so were wrong.

Ah, he just likes to have all the info out. Just a different and complete way of answering a question.

don't get upset.

[shooter357]

If I understand what you two are saying, any sale of a personal rifle(long gun) will be recorded. What about the PICS check?