Anti-gun letter in Metro

[Metz]

So, here is some douchebag's letter in today's Metro (www.metro.us):

Wake up and smell gunpowder

The arguments that guns are tools of self defence is tired and unfounded. Guns are used in self defence against criminals only 0.2 percent of the time including such gun use by cops. Meanwhile more than 80 Americans die every day from firearms. Annually, over 5,000 kids die from gunshot wounds and roughly 65,000 Americans are injured by firearms. The FBI reports that over 1.7 million guns have been stolen over the past decade, and guess what? They don't end up in hands of good people. Tell me again how guns are keeping us safe.

The email for the Letters section of the paper is: letters@metro.us

How about somebody with superior writing skills (I'm thinking about LittleRedToyota or somebody like him) will write to them?

And as of the letter itself and the arguments - OMFG! What an idiot. He really needs to do his homework... oh, wait, he doesn't have time for that, because he's thinking about the children!

And for those of us, who are not familiar with statistics (and might be impressed by the numbers in the quote), here is one for you: about 800 kids (ages 0 to 18) die every year in the US because of the firearms - it was a little over 1000 few years ago, but numbers are going down every year (despite of the gun sales, that are up). That puts firearm in high teens on the list of causes of juvenile death. Waaaaay lower that car accidents, drowning, medical malpractice etc. So every moron, who'll ever bring this argument up should be ready to ban all the cars, doctors and swimming pools before he'll even consider banning guns. Because THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!

[tsafa]

I heard about that 5,000 number which they have over inflated with everything they possibly can. I vaguely recall that their idea of kids is any one under 21. They include combat deaths in that number for 18, 19, 20 and 21 year olds who die in the line of duty in the military. They include gang on gang violence too, which would happen anyway by some other means.

I believe that the true statistic are that more kids die from playing sports then from guns. Both are very small numbers in a country with over 300 million people.

[phillykev]

Wake up and smell the exhaust fumes

The arguments that automobiles are tools of transportation is tired and unfounded. More than 119 Americans die every day from automobiles. Annually, over 6,000 kids die from automobile accidents and roughly 2,500,000 Americans are injured by automobiles. The FBI reports that over 10 million automobiles have been stolen over the past decade, and guess what? They don't end up in hands of good people. Tell me again how automobiles are keeping us safe.

Bottom line, if you're going to use big numbers to scare people, you'd better put them in perspective.

[Steve_NEPhila]

When they say "5000 kids die from gunshot wounds" they really mean anyone under 24 usually. This classification is usually independent of any other factor then age. Without going into how many "kids" are charged or convicted of assault with a deadly weapon, murder and other violent crimes, this statistic means shit.

We have about 300,000,000 citizens in this country. We also have about 1 firearm per capita, which is one firearm for each man woman and child. Yet we have only about 30,000 deaths a year from firearms, total. This is about 1/100th of a percent if my math is correct. That is what I believe to be a trivial number, and not an "epidemic" or "major problem."

[Metz]

Bottom line, if you're going to use big numbers to scare people, you'd better put them in perspective.

Bravo! That is EXACTLY what I was thinking about.

Care to email it to letter@metro.us as response to Matthew Ferrara's email?

[TaePo]

Swimming pools kill more kids, IIRC.

Ask for cited sources, if someone writes, don't forget to cite your source(s). Otherwise, I read it to mean "here are some unfounded numbers I found". And, needless to say, I assume your points are moot. Especially if you wanted to propound an opinion with hard numbers that are, well, meaningless. Then we are left with just your opinion anyway.

[Brick]

Hey Metz,

Here's what Gun Facts has to say
See: http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-fa...5.1-screen.pdf for the full facts including research sources.

CHILDREN AND GUNS
Myth: 13 children are killed each day by guns
Fact: Adults included – This “statistic” includes “children” up to age 19 or 24,
depending on the source. Most violent crime is committed by males ages 16-24, these numbers end up including adult gang members dying during criminal activity (229). The proper definition of ‘child’ is a person between birth and puberty (typically 13-14 years old).

Fact: Criminals are included - 70% of these deaths are juveniles or adults, ages 17 to 20, during gang warfare. Half of the juveniles killed are involved in gang activity at the time of their deaths: often drug related firefights.

Fact: Suicides and criminals included - These numbers include criminal activities and suicides. (230) As suicides make up more than ½ of all gun
deaths, the number children killed could drop even further, to about 1.3 a day. (231)

Fact: The federal government lists the total firearm related deaths for children were 612, or 1.7 per day, in 1998. 154 were suicides (232)

Fact: Over 13 teenagers die every day in automobiles, seven behind the wheel. (233)
Fact: Four children die each day in the U.S. from parental neglect and abuse.(234)
Fact: For contrast: 1,917 children die each day from malaria (235) around the world and 15 men, women, and children per day are murdered by a convicted felon in government supervised parole/probation programs in the U.S. (236)

Footnotes
229 FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1997
230 Rates of Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm-Related Death Among Children -- 26 Industrialized Countries
National Center for Health Statistics, , 1997
231 National Vital Statistics Report - Deaths: Final Data for 1998,,Center for Disease Control July 24, 2000
232 CDC WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports, 1981-1998
233 U.S. Department of Transportation's Fatality Analysis Reporting System, 2001
234 National Center on Child Abuse Prevention, 1998 Annual Survey

You will also find a means to access official government data here (yes this is part of the Center For Disease Control).

http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html

I used the WISQARS system many years ago to write my own refutation to a similar article. You might want to explore it and try to retrieve the data that interests you.

[Metz]

Thanks, Brick. I love gunfacts. Have it in my browser's favorites for the past few years.

As of the government data I like to refer to the FBI, however their numbers are sometimes hard to find.

[donm]

Remember that showing the "antis" stats on a site called "gunfacts" is a lot like showing us stats on bradycampaign.org. The CDC site is a good source and even gives you a lot of ways to search to answer specific questions. Especially helpful when the facts are on your side.

There's a very interesting chart at http://www.cdc.gov/injury/Images/LC-...6-7_6_09-a.pdf.

[TaePo]

I find it difficult to believe that homicide by firearm is the second leading cause of death for 10-24 year olds.

I was in the Army for four years and including that time, I luckily never knew someone who died of homicide by firearm or suicide.

There were high school youths in my class that burned to death in a house fire (3).
I think there were a couple of drownings. (At least one who was so drunk they choked on their own vomit - Military)
There were definitely a couple of auto accidental deaths, at least one I recall.
And several due to illness or undiagnosed heart conditions.

There was one accidental shooting in High School while hunting and thankfully, the person survived. (They were handing off a weapon while crossing a fence, it was a .22 rifle)

I only recently have experience regarding someone dying from a homicide by firearm and that person was a police officer and we're in the 40's age range to boot.

Maybe I am running with the wrong crowd?? I am dubious of those CDC stats and would want to check deeper into how they came to rate them.