"references" for CCW?

[Dredly]

This has been bugging me for a while but I'm curious if its just me.

In Monroe County in order to get a LTCF you need 2 references that reside in Monroe County to fill out a post card that says you are good to have a LTCF.

There are a few things that bother me with this...

- why should I have to give my friends info to the Sheriffs and have them check on me? They can already do a background check, if I haven't been arrested in 28 years shouldn't that be enough?

- People now know that I am carrying, not always good, and word tends to spread

- If an anti-gun spouse gets the card instead of the person it was sent to and fills it out they can prevent me from getting my LTCF

- If the person its being sent to is on vacation or slow it can significantly delay me getting my LTCF

- If new to the area how are you going to find people that you trust enough to fill it out? Are you just going to ask random people on the street? They must be Monroe Residents

Overall it just doesn't make sense to me, especially in a shall issue state. Are they just looking for someone to check the wrong thing on the card to prevent me from getting a LTC?

[gnbrotz]

While references are required, the law does not specify that they must be in the county that you reside. That is an additional, illegal requirement added by the Sheriff.

Your choices are to comply or legally challenge it.

[Johannes_Paulsen]

This has been bugging me for a while but I'm curious if its just me.

In Monroe County in order to get a LTCF you need 2 references that reside in Monroe County to fill out a post card that says you are good to have a LTCF.

There are a few things that bother me with this...

- why should I have to give my friends info to the Sheriffs and have them check on me? They can already do a background check, if I haven't been arrested in 28 years shouldn't that be enough?

- People now know that I am carrying, not always good, and word tends to spread

- If an anti-gun spouse gets the card instead of the person it was sent to and fills it out they can prevent me from getting my LTCF

- If the person its being sent to is on vacation or slow it can significantly delay me getting my LTCF

- If new to the area how are you going to find people that you trust enough to fill it out? Are you just going to ask random people on the street? They must be Monroe Residents

Overall it just doesn't make sense to me, especially in a shall issue state. Are they just looking for someone to check the wrong thing on the card to prevent me from getting a LTC?

Like most people who ask for a reference, they're really just checking to see if you can find two people who are willing to say nice things about you. If you can't do that, that's probably a red flag in and of itself. Although Pa. is a "shall-issue" state, the sheriff can deny a permit if (among other things) the applicant is known to be of bad character or reputation in the community. This is probably their way of checking that.

If someone other than the addressee takes the card and fills it out, they are breaking the law and would be subject to penalties.

As for delay, well, the sheriff is required by state law to approve your application with 45 days if he hasn't established a reason why it should be denied. So if your friends take too long to get back to him because they're on a two month long cruise around the world, and the sheriff has no other reason to deny you, he is required to approve the application.

And, of course, if your application is denied and you feel that it was wrongly denied, you can always appeal the decision in court.

[Dredly]

While references are required, the law does not specify that they must be in the county that you reside. That is an additional, illegal requirement added by the Sheriff.

Your choices are to comply or legally challenge it.

No kidding! I didn't know that. Yeah it definitely states without a doubt that they must be Monroe County Residents

http://www.co.monroe.pa.us/judicial/...=1537&q=604789

2 References (Must be Monroe County Residents - Please refer to full instruction sheet for reference requirements)


I didn't have any issue getting 2 reference, using 2 of my buddies parents as my buddies have since moved south a ways (Northampton and Whitehall) but its still annoying

[MrUgly]

The link below is the form your references will be mailed.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/259245-post-9.html

[Dredly]

The link below is the form your references will be mailed.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/259245-post-9.html

Yup that would be the one

[Pa. Patriot]

... the sheriff can deny a permit if (among other things) the applicant is known to be of bad character or reputation in the community. .

The reason in the statute is worded differently and as such considerably different in meaning and suitability. I paste

below:
(i) An individual whose character and reputation is
such that the individual would be likely to act in a
manner dangerous to public safety.

[paulie6978]

in philly you will need 2 references but they never contact them during the BI process

[headcase]

This has been bugging me for a while but I'm curious if its just me.

In Monroe County in order to get a LTCF you need 2 references that reside in Monroe County to fill out a post card that says you are good to have a LTCF.

There are a few things that bother me with this...

- why should I have to give my friends info to the Sheriffs and have them check on me? They can already do a background check, if I haven't been arrested in 28 years shouldn't that be enough?

- People now know that I am carrying, not always good, and word tends to spread

- If an anti-gun spouse gets the card instead of the person it was sent to and fills it out they can prevent me from getting my LTCF

- If the person its being sent to is on vacation or slow it can significantly delay me getting my LTCF

- If new to the area how are you going to find people that you trust enough to fill it out? Are you just going to ask random people on the street? They must be Monroe Residents

Overall it just doesn't make sense to me, especially in a shall issue state. Are they just looking for someone to check the wrong thing on the card to prevent me from getting a LTC?

The requirements in Monroe county are what they are. You are free to go into the sheriffs office and complain that their requirements are not in line with the state. Fill out the application the way you see fit, and then hand it in. After argueing with the lady at the desk about why she won't take it, one of the deputies will probably come over and tell her to just submit it and see what happens. When they deny you, challenge them in court..... Or you could just fill out the application the way they want you to and inform your references that they will be getting the card in the mail in about 11 days. Ask them to let you know when they get it, so you can keep track of the time line. And if all goes well, you will have your LTCF in about 45 days.

OASN~ Did you get the app. from the website? If so, they have tacked on three months of recent utility bills showing your residence to the requirements.

[Dredly]

The requirements in Monroe county are what they are. You are free to go into the sheriffs office and complain that their requirements are not in line with the state. Fill out the application the way you see fit, and then hand it in. After argueing with the lady at the desk about why she won't take it, one of the deputies will probably come over and tell her to just submit it and see what happens. When they deny you, challenge them in court..... Or you could just fill out the application the way they want you to and inform your references that they will be getting the card in the mail in about 11 days. Ask them to let you know when they get it, so you can keep track of the time line. And if all goes well, you will have your LTCF in about 45 days.

OASN~ Did you get the app. from the website? If so, they have tacked on three months of recent utility bills showing your residence to the requirements.

No reason to piss off the sheriffs, just complaining :P

I didn't notice that. I know I had to bring proof of income tax being paid but I didn't have to do the 3 months... wonder when that was added