NEWBIE QUESTION ABOUT WHEN I CAN PULL MY GUN (edited to be shorter)

[GunMan21]

Hey guys,

I've only had my LTCF for 5 months and I'm still trying to read and research laws as much as possible to inform myself. I go to school in a part of philadelphia where alot of robberies happen, both armed and unarmed. I know its really a grey area, but can you guys clear up the issue when its ok to pull my gun, particularly if I'm robbed, Ive been reading alot, but I still have questions....

For instance, if someone comes up to me at night and says "give me all your money or I'll blow your head off," but doesnt show a gun, can I pull mine? Can I shoot? Its a clear threat of deadly force, but given in the classic (if you dont do this, then I will do this) way. This is common in the robberies around me, they often threaten deadly harm or say they have a gun, not always showing it.

If a robber points a gun or knife at me does that give me a right to draw and shoot mine? Or do I have to give him my money and hopes he walks away? (not talking about if its a good idea for me to pull mine while a gun is already in my face or anything like that. strictly on terms of legally. So lets assume i can knock his gun away and pull mine in time or something to that nature)


your time in answering them is GREATLY appreciated and needed. as anyone living in philadelphia knows, the chance of having to use deadly force is much higher than many other low crime PA cities. Also, any comments like "you shouldnt carry until you are more prepared" arent needed. I believe I am quite capable of pulling and using my gun properly. I always practice gun safety and proper procedure. These are strictly legal questions.

****edited waaay down to just a couple questions to get more specific answers to specific scenarios***

[zackattack784]

Wow, too many questions there for me to answer at the moment. Some very situational. My only advice, attend one of gunlawyer's seminars.

[PA Traveler]

First using the Reference Library, I'd recommend some serious review of 18 PA C.S. Sec 501 on Use of Force.

Then I would suggest you find and complete a good Concealed Carry / Personal Defense Course.

Basically, to justify the use of deadly force, you must reasonably believe that you are either going to suffer grievous bodily injury or die RIGHT NOW and the use of your firearm is the last and only way to avoid same.

I am not a lawyer, and nothing here is to be construed as legal advice. You are at the beginning of a very long and complex journey. Once you've read and understood the above, a discussion with an appropriately experienced lawyer may still be needed.

Considering how high the stakes are you need to know the answers to your questions before you ever venture out in public armed. Good luck!

[headcase]

You can "pull" your gun when you feel your life is threatened or you feel you are in risk of grave bodily injury, or you feel someone else is in the same situation, with caveats and restrictions. Read the use of force statutes in the reference library, as has been suggested. IANAL, IMHO, if you feel your life is threatened, and you have no viable other options, you draw your firearm. If you don't feel that way, you don't draw your firearm.

[normanvin]

You can "pull" your gun when you feel your life is threatened or you feel you are in risk of grave bodily injury, or you feel someone else is in the same situation, with caveats and restrictions. Read the use of force statutes in the reference library, as has been suggested. IANAL, IMHO, if you feel your life is threatened, and you have no viable other options, you draw your firearm. If you don't feel that way, you don't draw your firearm.

What he said.

[GuyMontag]

You can "pull" your gun when you feel your life is threatened or you feel you are in risk of grave bodily injury, or you feel someone else is in the same situation, with caveats and restrictions. Read the use of force statutes in the reference library, as has been suggested. IANAL, IMHO, if you feel your life is threatened, and you have no viable other options, you draw your firearm. If you don't feel that way, you don't draw your firearm.

I'd like to add that 'pulling your gun' isn't like the movies. While you don't have to fire the gun, you must be prepared to use it and have already made the decision that you are capable of using it to stop a threat. There is no bluffing. If you haven't already made that decision in your head that you are capable of using it, don't carry it.

[edstephan]

First thing is you need training ASAP.
Carrying a firearm for self-defense without either years of experience or proper training can get you either dead or in jail.

Like Matt said:

I'd like to add that 'pulling your gun' isn't like the movies. While you don't have to fire the gun, you must be prepared to use it and have already made the decision that you are capable of using it to stop a threat. There is no bluffing. If you haven't already made that decision in your head that you are capable of using it, don't carry it.

This is real life and you must make the decision long before you have to deploy. This is a game that has very little do overs.
Not only do you need self-defense training but you also need retension training.


An OC Activist and 1 of the 3%
Ed Stephan

[Dannytheman]

I'd also like to add something. Because you have a LTCF and because you feel your life has been threatened does not mean you will not be arrested for making the choose you do. If you are truly doing the research, then look on this site for the many threads that teach about the 5th amendment and my personal recommendation to have a gun knowledgeable lawyer on your speed dial. I hope you never need the lawyer!

I try not to respond to hypothetical questions on this forum because I AM NOT A LAWYER.

[RoyJackson]

I've had my license since '88 (give or take a year). In all those years since, I've had to pull a gun once (couple of drunks aggressively coming on to my wife and I about a parking spot...of all the stupid things!). That incident settled itself when we gave up the parking spot...pissed me off though. Although we were in the car behind locked doors, we did feel threatened. This was several years ago and cell phones were not common. This incident took place on the Olive Garden parking lot (in York) during the hot rod weekend.
There are no hard and fast rules about the use of a self defense weapon. Laws cannot cover every situation.
Mostly, the use of a firearm in self defense requires good judgement. Good judgement normally means you stay out of places that are risky and run (if you can) if you do get into a situation. If you must pull that weapon, you'd better be prepared to use it.

If you have any doubts, then you should reconsider if you really want to carry a gun.

Now, if a thief wants my wallet, he can have it (might get twenty bucks on a good day). If a robber is knocking over a WaWa...well, most of those employees are going to give him any cash they have and the robber will leave (he or she won't want a murder charge on them). But if you pull your weapon, you'd better be ready to shoot...otherwise he'll shoot you.

What if I get into a fight with someone, for whatever reason, lets say a fist fight, and they pull a weapon or a knife. Can I pull my gun?

Your choice here is to run away, if at all possible. If he runs after you with a weapon that can inflict lethal injury...well, if I was on that jury I'd say you were justified in stopping him by any means at your disposal.

[IronButt]

If you're new to carrying a weapon, (we all were at one time), I'd strongly advise getting some training. Life isn't a video game. If you shoot someone, whether it's justified or not, there will be some consequences. Psychological, legal, monetary, or all of the above.