Where to place in vehicle

[DonSmithnotTMD]

I couldn't find anything like what I'm trying to find out, so I thought I would ask.

I have a Jeep Patriot (kinda like a small Grand Cherokee). Since I don't have a LTCF what is the best configuration for transporting my .45 during my trips to PA?

I can figure I can either put the gun in the back seat area (where I can't reach it) and the ammo in the cargo area or the opposite or both in the cargo area. Which of these seems safest?

[kevco]

Easiest would be to get a LTCF. Then you'd be able to carry it on your person.

[LittleRedToyota]

in PA, it doesn't matter where you put it.

to be legal to carry it in your car, you either have to:

1. have a carry license/permit from any state

2. have it "unloaded"...which by the legal defintion means having all ammo in a separate container (or, in the case of a container with multiple compartments, in a separate compartment), but it doesn't matter where in the car the container(s) is/are.

"Loaded." A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the
nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the
chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being
fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable
magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in
said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has
been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or,
where the container has multiple compartments, the same
compartment thereof as the firearm.

3. be on your way to or from the range, gun shop, etc. you cannot generally legally drive around with a handgun (even if it is unloaded) in your car in PA unless you have a carry license (from any state) or you meet one of the exceptions specified in section 6106(b) of the PA UFA which can be found here:

http://www.frontlinearmory.com/misc/paoc/ufa.html#6109

here is the relevant section:

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not
apply to:
(1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or
their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its
political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
(2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force
or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard
or organized reserves when on duty.
(3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization
duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the
United States or from this Commonwealth.
(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a
firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their
places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to
or from their places of assembly or target practice, the
firearm is not loaded.
(5) Officers or employees of the United States duly
authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
(6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common
carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them
to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the
discharge of such duties.
(7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing,
repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or
representative of any such person, having in his possession,
using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course
of such business.
(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not
loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase
to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair,
sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business,
or in moving from one place of abode or business to another
or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or
dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section
6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a
place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use
or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which
the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23
Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of
the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of
business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.2
(relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful
transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the
relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping
pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment
to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the
relinquished firearm.
(9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in
this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting,
taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or
are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take
furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
(10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually
training dogs during the regular training season.
(11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle,
which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license
for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the
United States or any other state.
(12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry
a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and
that said license expired within six months prior to the date
of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for
renewal of the license.
(13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a
firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor
vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name
of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which
a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to
the spouse or parent owning the firearm.
(14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate
transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C. §
921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18
U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of
firearms).
(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully
issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been
issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether
a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and
the state under section 6109(k), provided:
(i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for
individuals licensed to carry firearms under section
6109.
(ii) The Attorney General has determined that the
firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws
of this Commonwealth.

if you do not fit into one of the above exceptions at the time you have the handgun in your car and you do not have a carry license from some state, you are in violation of section 6106(a).

(a) Offense defined.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who
carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a
firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place
of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and
lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony
of the third degree.
(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a
valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any
vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or
about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place
of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and
has not committed any other criminal violation commits a
misdemeanor of the first degree.

[chrisjames_71]

I couldn't find anything like what I'm trying to find out, so I thought I would ask.

I have a Jeep Patriot (kinda like a small Grand Cherokee). Since I don't have a LTCF what is the best configuration for transporting my .45 during my trips to PA?

I can figure I can either put the gun in the back seat area (where I can't reach it) and the ammo in the cargo area or the opposite or both in the cargo area. Which of these seems safest?

I'm confused... you say

during my trips to PA

, but according to your location: you live in PA...

[DonSmithnotTMD]

I'm confused... you say , but according to your location: you live in PA...

well I cheated. Depending what I find out on Monday, i might be living there next week or it could be another month or so. Great fun for getting a new DL and vehicle registration.

Thanks everybody. You confirmed what I read which is of course what I was hoping wouldn't happen. Maybe someday there will be OC like in NC.

[imperialism2024]

well I cheated. Depending what I find out on Monday, i might be living there next week or it could be another month or so. Great fun for getting a new DL and vehicle registration.

Thanks everybody. You confirmed what I read which is of course what I was hoping wouldn't happen. Maybe someday there will be OC like in NC.

Pennsylvania is a de facto "licensed open carry state", in that you need a LTCF to bypass the federal "school zones" prohibition in urban areas, and you need a LTCF to carry in the vehicle necessary to get around in suburban and rural areas.

[headcase]

in PA, it doesn't matter where you put it.

to be legal to carry it in your car, you either have to:

1. have a carry license/permit from any state

OR

1. Meet exception (1.),(2.),(3.),(5.),(6.), or (7.)
OR

1. have it "unloaded"...which by the legal defintion means having all ammo in a separate container (or, in the case of a container with multiple compartments, in a separate compartment), but it doesn't matter where in the car the container(s) is/are.

"Loaded." A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the
nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the
chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being
fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable
magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in
said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has
been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or,
where the container has multiple compartments, the same
compartment thereof as the firearm.

AND

2. be on your way to or from the range, gun shop, etc. you cannot generally legally drive around with a handgun (even if it is unloaded) in your car in PA unless you have a carry license (from any state) or you meet one of the exceptions specified in section 6106(b) of the PA UFA which can be found here:

http://www.frontlinearmory.com/misc/paoc/ufa.html#6109

here is the relevant section:

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not
apply to:
(1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or
their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its
political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
(2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force
or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard
or organized reserves when on duty.
(3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization
duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the
United States or from this Commonwealth.
(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a
firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their
places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to
or from their places of assembly or target practice, the
firearm is not loaded.
(5) Officers or employees of the United States duly
authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
(6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common
carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them
to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the
discharge of such duties.
(7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing,
repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or
representative of any such person, having in his possession,
using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course
of such business.
(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not
loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase
to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair,
sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business,
or in moving from one place of abode or business to another
or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or
dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section
6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a
place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use
or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which
the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23
Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of
the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of
business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.2
(relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful
transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the
relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping
pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment
to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the
relinquished firearm.
(9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in
this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting,
taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or
are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take
furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
(10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually
training dogs during the regular training season.
(11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle,
which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license
for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the
United States or any other state.
(12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry
a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and
that said license expired within six months prior to the date
of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for
renewal of the license.
(13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a
firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor
vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name
of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which
a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to
the spouse or parent owning the firearm.
(14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate
transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C. §
921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18
U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of
firearms).
(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully
issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been
issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether
a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and
the state under section 6109(k), provided:
(i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for
individuals licensed to carry firearms under section
6109.
(ii) The Attorney General has determined that the
firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws
of this Commonwealth.

Meeting exceptions (1.),(2.),(3.),(5.),(6.), or (7.) means you have been authorized by some other means to carry a firearm.

Meeting (4.), or (8.) means that you have to follow the method laid out to transport your firearm, and be engaged in one of the mentioned activities.

The other exceptions are spelled out in a very self explanatory way.
if you do not fit into one of the above exceptions at the time you have the handgun in your car and you do not have a carry license from some state, you are in violation of section 6106(a).

*red changes are mine
Fixed it for ya
The "just having the firearm unloaded, with the ammo separated" applies to long guns in a vehicle in this Commonwealth, not handguns.

well I cheated. Depending what I find out on Monday, i might be living there next week or it could be another month or so. Great fun for getting a new DL and vehicle registration.

Thanks everybody. You confirmed what I read which is of course what I was hoping wouldn't happen. Maybe someday there will be OC like in NC.

Now I'm confused? Maybe they will have OC like in N.C.? Do you mean having the firearm in plain view inside the car?

[DonSmithnotTMD]

Pennsylvania is a de facto "licensed open carry state", in that you need a LTCF to bypass the federal "school zones" prohibition in urban areas, and you need a LTCF to carry in the vehicle necessary to get around in suburban and rural areas.

Yep I get it. It's like Dr. Laura I wanted somebody to tell me that what I knew to be right wasn't right and what I wanted to do was.

[LittleRedToyota]

*red changes are mine
Fixed it for ya
The "just having the firearm unloaded, with the ammo separated" applies to long guns in a vehicle in this Commonwealth, not handguns.

yes. i neglected to put in the proper "ors" and "ands".

you need 1 or both 2 and 3 in my original post.

[DonSmithnotTMD]

Now I'm confused? Maybe they will have OC like in N.C.? Do you mean having the firearm in plain view inside the car?

Yes I do. The drawback is that here there is no preemption, so municipalities can pass ordinances that take precedence over the state statute.