Can Not Buy a Firearm in PA

[kaybur]

New member here. So far, the PCIS will not let me purchase a firearm in PA.

About 4-9-09 I tried to buy a firearm. Instant check did not go through. Fifteen days later on 4-24-09 the PICS told the gun dealer that my request to purchase a firearm was “undetermined”.

I sent in a PICS Challenge Form to the state police on 4-27-09.

On May 7 I received a letter from the PICS saying that they denied my Challenge based only on “Location: Delaware”. No other information was given. No other concerns or charges were listed.

On May 21, 2009, I sent in another letter to the PICS regarding their denial on May 7.

From May 7 until May 21st I have been working with a PICS legal assistant. I gave her information from Delaware that should clear the matter up. I told her that I did not have a record in Delaware. However, she has not been all that helpful and seems to be dragging her feet. She says that she sent in a FAX to Delaware for information, but has not received anything yet. She says that there only 8 of them in the office, and they have 300 cases. So I finally sent in the May 21 letter as I had to respond to their letter of May 7.

The problem comes in because I was honest and told the PICS that I had a misdemeanor in Dover, Delaware during the summer of 1960 (50 years ago). Apparently the PICS checked with the Delaware state, and they told PICS that there were no incidences on my Delaware record.

I called the state of Delaware and they confirmed that I do not have anything on my record.

The thing is that even if they could fine my record of the misdemeanor, it would not preclude me from buying a firearm. Delaware misdemeanors do not carry a jail term of one year or more.

The only concern that they may have is my age (almost 70 years old).

I am soo irate.

Any recommendations???? It will be months before I can buy a firearm (if then).

ken

[headcase]

Maybe they think you are a resident of Delaware?

[kaybur]

Do you think so? They would know I live in PA if they looked at my address. Anything is possible I guess.
ken

[knight0334]

Is it possible the offense in Delaware matches one of the enumerated offenses in 6105? Not trying to pry, just compare the misdemeanor you had with what is listed below.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...sfer-firearms/

18 Pa.C.S. § 6105: Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms

(b) Enumerated offenses.--The following offenses shall apply to subsection (a):
Section 908 (relating to prohibited offensive weapons).
Section 911 (relating to corrupt organizations).
Section 912 (relating to possession of weapon on school property).
Section 2502 (relating to murder).
Section 2503 (relating to voluntary manslaughter).
Section 2504 (relating to involuntary manslaughter) if the offense is based on the reckless use of a firearm.
Section 2702 (relating to aggravated assault).
Section 2703 (relating to assault by prisoner).
Section 2704 (relating to assault by life prisoner).
Section 2709.1 (relating to stalking).
Section 2716 (relating to weapons of mass destruction).
Section 2901 (relating to kidnapping).
Section 2902 (relating to unlawful restraint).
Section 2910 (relating to luring a child into a motor vehicle).
Section 3121 (relating to rape).
Section 3123 (relating to involuntary deviate sexual intercourse).
Section 3125 (relating to aggravated indecent assault).
Section 3301 (relating to arson and related offenses).
Section 3302 (relating to causing or risking catastrophe).
Section 3502 (relating to burglary).
Section 3503 (relating to criminal trespass) if the offense is graded a felony of the second degree or higher.
Section 3701 (relating to robbery).
Section 3702 (relating to robbery of motor vehicle).
Section 3921 (relating to theft by unlawful taking or disposition) upon conviction of the second felony offense.
Section 3923 (relating to theft by extortion) when the offense is accompanied by threats of violence.
Section 3925 (relating to receiving stolen property) upon conviction of the second felony offense.
Section 4912 (relating to impersonating a public servant) if the person is impersonating a law enforcement officer.
Section 4952 (relating to intimidation of witnesses or victims).
Section 4953 (relating to retaliation against witness or victim).
Section 5121 (relating to escape).
Section 5122 (relating to weapons or implements for escape).
Section 5501(3) (relating to riot).
Section 5515 (relating to prohibiting of paramilitary training).
Section 5516 (relating to facsimile weapons of mass destruction).
Section 6110.1 (relating to possession of firearm by minor).
Section 6301 (relating to corruption of minors).
Section 6302 (relating to sale or lease of weapons and explosives).
Any offense equivalent to any of the above-enumerated offenses under the prior laws of this Commonwealth or any offense equivalent to any of the above-enumerated offenses under the statutes of any other state or of the United States.

(c) Other persons.--In addition to any person who has been convicted of any offense listed under subsection (b), the following persons shall be subject to the prohibition of subsection (a):
(1) A person who is a fugitive from justice. This paragraph does not apply to an individual whose fugitive status is based upon a nonmoving or moving summary offense under Title 75 (relating to vehicles).
(2) A person who has been convicted of an offense under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L. 233, No. 64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, or any equivalent Federal statute or equivalent statute of any other state, that may be punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding two years.
(3) A person who has been convicted of driving under the influence of alcohol or controlled substance as provided in 75 Pa.C.S. § 3802 (relating to driving under influence of alcohol or controlled substance) or the former 75 Pa.C.S. § 3731, on three or more separate occasions within a five-year period. For the purposes of this paragraph only, the prohibition of subsection (a) shall only apply to transfers or purchases of firearms after the third conviction
(4) A person who has been adjudicated as an incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302, 303 or 304 of the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L. 817, No. 143), [FN2] known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. This paragraph shall not apply to any proceeding under section 302 of the Mental Health Procedures Act unless the examining physician has issued a certification that inpatient care was necessary or that the person was committable.
(5) A person who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
(6) A person who is the subject of an active protection from abuse order issued pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108, which order provided for the relinquishment of firearms during the period of time the order is in effect. This prohibition shall terminate upon the expiration or vacation of an active protection from abuse order or portion thereof relating to the relinquishment of firearms.
(7) A person who was adjudicated delinquent by a court pursuant to 42 Pa.C.S. § 6341 (relating to adjudication) or under any equivalent Federal statute or statute of any other state as a result of conduct which if committed by an adult would constitute an offense under sections 2502, 2503, 2702, 2703 (relating to assault by prisoner), 2704, 2901, 3121, 3123, 3301, 3502, 3701 and 3923.
(8) A person who was adjudicated delinquent by a court pursuant to 42 Pa.C.S. § 6341 or under any equivalent Federal statute or statute of any other state as a result of conduct which if committed by an adult would constitute an offense enumerated in subsection (b) with the exception of those crimes set forth in paragraph (7). This prohibition shall terminate 15 years after the last applicable delinquent adjudication or upon the person reaching the age of 30, whichever is earlier.
(9) A person who is prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9) (relating to unlawful acts). If the offense which resulted in the prohibition under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9) was committed, as provided in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(33)(A)(ii) (relating to definitions), by a person in any of the following relationships:
(i) the current or former spouse, parent or guardian of the victim;
(ii) a person with whom the victim shares a child in common;
(iii) a person who cohabits with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent or guardian; or
(iv) a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent or guardian of the victim; then the relationship need not be an element of the offense to meet the requirements of this paragraph.

[kaybur]

Nope. None of them apply. ken

[WhiteFeather]

New member here. So far, the PCIS will not let me purchase a firearm in PA.

About 4-9-09 I tried to buy a firearm. Instant check did not go through. Fifteen days later on 4-24-09 the PICS told the gun dealer that my request to purchase a firearm was “undetermined”.

I sent in a PICS Challenge Form to the state police on 4-27-09.

On May 7 I received a letter from the PICS saying that they denied my Challenge based only on “Location: Delaware”. No other information was given. No other concerns or charges were listed.

On May 21, 2009, I sent in another letter to the PICS regarding their denial on May 7.

From May 7 until May 21st I have been working with a PICS legal assistant. I gave her information from Delaware that should clear the matter up. I told her that I did not have a record in Delaware. However, she has not been all that helpful and seems to be dragging her feet. She says that she sent in a FAX to Delaware for information, but has not received anything yet. She says that there only 8 of them in the office, and they have 300 cases. So I finally sent in the May 21 letter as I had to respond to their letter of May 7.

The problem comes in because I was honest and told the PICS that I had a misdemeanor in Dover, Delaware during the summer of 1960 (50 years ago). Apparently the PICS checked with the Delaware state, and they told PICS that there were no incidences on my Delaware record.

I called the state of Delaware and they confirmed that I do not have anything on my record.

The thing is that even if they could fine my record of the misdemeanor, it would not preclude me from buying a firearm. Delaware misdemeanors do not carry a jail term of one year or more.

The only concern that they may have is my age (almost 70 years old).

I am soo irate.

Any recommendations???? It will be months before I can buy a firearm (if then).

ken

Hey Ken

Send an email to Kim Stolfer at activist@fyi.net detailing you problem as you posted here. Kim is right now working with legislators to correct this problem one way or another.

or you can go to this web site http://acslpa.org/ and submit the form, its located on the right hand side of the page about half way down and will get to Kim just another added step.

Legislative Committee Forum

Have YOU or SOMEONE you know had Problems with the PA Instant Check System?

Have YOU or SOMEONE you know had Problems with GETTING a Concealed Weapons Permit or RENEWING the one you already have?

Help US help YOU and YOUR fellow gun owners by clicking this link:

ACSL Problem Reporting & Documentation Procedure

(Your information will be handled in complete compliance with the choices you make at this page)

I believe you hit one of the problems with the PICS not being fully compatible with NICS with the accessing out of state records information. Which is not uncommon, it shouldn't be after all the millions of tax payer dollars spent on PICS, just so the PSP can keep records of gun owners, among other things with this database (non database). Tax money and resources that could have better spent hiring more police or other proven crime fighting measures instead of PICS.

[kaybur]

WhiteFeather . . . . thanks for the response. I will send a note to Kim.

I think that you could be correct in that I am between PICS and NICS. I got mixed up between PICS and NICS. I thought they were the same. I sent NICS an email asking what the status was on my PICS Challenge Form. NICS said that they were looking into the matter. I really do not know the difference between the two.

What a mess.

thanks again, ken

[NineseveN]

PICS is state (as in Pennsylvania Instant Check System), NICS is Federal (an in National Instant Check System).

[GunLawyer001]

. . .
The problem comes in because I was honest and told the PICS that I had a misdemeanor in Dover, Delaware during the summer of 1960 (50 years ago). Apparently the PICS checked with the Delaware state, and they told PICS that there were no incidences on my Delaware record.

I called the state of Delaware and they confirmed that I do not have anything on my record.
. . .

Something is not tracking here for me.

If you answered "yes" on the form to reflect the Delaware misdemeanor, the FFL wouldn't even call it in to PICS. If you answered "no", then why would PICS flag you at all? The call to PICS isn't a Q&A between you and them, the dealer just provides identifying information and they use that to check their records. For you to not be approved, PICS had to already have something in their computer. For it to remain "undetermined", PICS wouldn't have the disposition available, but they'd know of the arrest.

[NineseveN]

Something is not tracking here for me.

If you answered "yes" on the form to reflect the Delaware misdemeanor, the FFL wouldn't even call it in to PICS. If you answered "no", then why would PICS flag you at all? The call to PICS isn't a Q&A between you and them, the dealer just provides identifying information and they use that to check their records. For you to not be approved, PICS had to already have something in their computer. For it to remain "undetermined", PICS wouldn't have the disposition available, but they'd know of the arrest.

I think they're talking about discussions with the PICS office after the denial and challenge, not the dealer and PICS operator at the time of the attempt to purchase....unless I'm reading one of both of you wrong.

My reading of it is that kaybur answered NO on the form, dealer called it in, the PICS check failed so kaybur sent in a challenge form. At some time after that, the Delaware arrest was noted on the undetermined letter and during the course of conversation, kaybur feels that his (or her, not sure here) disclosure about the specifics of this charge (since PICS supposedly didn't have it) has kept him (or her, again, not sure here) from being able to resolve this. Which, to me, the last part is the only portion that doesn't make sense since it wouldn't matter what you told them, only what they do and don't have on record, right? You know a heckuvalot more than I do about this, so if I'm way off base, let me know.