Monroe County still doesn't get it.

[Tootie]

I was arguing (more like debating) with someone over Open Carry in PA. They insist that OC is Illegal in PA because Monroe county says so. I told him that no matter what Monroe county thinks that they cannot make up their own laws regarding the manner of carrying a firearm. He sends me a link to the Monroe county website, here, and I in return sent him a copy of the PA training memo attached below. I even told him to read the PA Uniform Firearms Act and to find me one place where it states that OC is illegal (of course he hasn't responded yet).

One part of what I wrote....

Again Monroe County no matter what they think is wrong and they cannot make up laws of their own, cause there is a law that says they can't. Oh heck, even the Chief of Police where I live knows OC is legal, you wanna know why? Because there is no law that says it's illegal. When there is no law stating that OC is illegal by default it is legal. Catch 22 sweety, read up and educate yourself, don't fall for their sheeple mentality.

This person has had a permit for years and still thinks it's a CWP because that's what Monroe county says. Do we need to educate Monroe county as a whole and how would we do that?

[headcase]

Did you ask your buddy to look down at their LTCF and read what it says?

[Tootie]

Did you ask your buddy to look down at their LTCF and read what it says?

Yes I did. I told him (not a buddy btw) to look at his LTCF and to please let me know where it states it's CWP. I haven't heard anything back from him since I told him to look for it.

[Pa. Patriot]

... Do we need to educate Monroe county as a whole and how would we do that?

Pressuring Monroe county to stop giving FALSE information would be a top priority.

Write him, write the paper, etc.

Sheriff: Todd A. Martin
Chief Deputy: Richard Martin
Sergeant: Mark Philips

Monroe County Courthouse Annex
One Courthouse Square Room 215
Stroudsburg, PA 18360-2189


Phone: (570) 517-3312
Fax: (570) 517-3870
Email: sheriff@co.monroe.pa.us

[headcase]

Yes I did. I told him (not a buddy btw) to look at his LTCF and to please let me know where it states it's CWP. I haven't heard anything back from him since I told him to look for it.

That is usually the deal sealer.....

[thelemite]

Monroe county is also in violation of the UFA with its requirement that references need to be from Monroe.

[Statkowski]

Letter sent as follows:

Friday, August 1, 2008

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
Pennsylvania State Police
Attn: Firearms Division
1800 Elmerton AvenueHarrisburg, PA17110



Dear Sirs:

Attached is the current LTCF application instructions required by Monroe County Sheriff Todd A. Martin. These instructions can also be found on-line at:
http://www.co.monroe.pa.us/judicial/lib/judicial/Instructions-PA_Carry_Firearms_App.pdf

Also attached is a printout of Sheriff Martin’s website in which he erroneously refers to Pennsylvania’s License to Carry Firearms as a Concealed Weapons Permit. His website can be found on-line at:
http://www.co.monroe.pa.us/judicial/cwp/view.asp?a=1537&Q=604789&judicialNav=|34328|

Lastly, attached as a reference, is the front page of the SP 4-127 (8-2007) form that Sheriff Martin uses.

As you are aware, 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 (c) states, in part:

• The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police.
• The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section.
• Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police.

Your attention is invited to Item 2 of his application instructions and also mentioned on his website. Here Sheriff Martin requires additional documentation mandated neither by state law nor the Pennsylvania State Police. In almost any other county in the Commonwealth, an applicant’s proof of identity and residency would consist of a Pennsylvania Driver’s License, yet Sheriff Martin requires:

• A Local 1% Earned Income Tax Form
• For retirees, a Federal Income Tax Return or Real Estate Tax form
• A doctor’s statement if one is disabled stating the specific nature of the disability plus a listing of any medications being taken.
• Military discharge papers (DD Form 214)

Sheriff Martin’s website requires the applicant to be a Pennsylvania resident for at least 60 days prior to application, a requirement mandated neither by state law nor the Pennsylvania State Police.

Lastly, Item 6 of the sheriff’s instructions requires that references must be full-time residents of MonroeCounty, a requirement mandated neither by state law nor the Pennsylvania State Police. References furnished are required to complete and return a questionnaire. If the referenced persons fail to return this questionnaire within 45 days, the LTCF application may be denied or delayed. Again, this requirement is mandated neither by state law nor the Pennsylvania State Police.

Sheriff Martin’s application process adds requirements not found elsewhere in the Commonwealth. Since his application process is therefore not “uniform throughout this Commonwealth,” is not Sheriff Martin’s application process in violation of Section 6109(c) of the Uniform Firearms Act? Clearly, it would appear to a layman that Sheriff Martin has exceeded his lawful authority.

A response would be appreciated with either:

• What actions your office is taking in this matter, or
• A recommended course of action by an applicant.

Sincerely,


Copies Furnished:

Monroe County District Attorney
1 Quaker Plaza
Stroudsburg, PA18360

Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General
16th Floor Strawberry Square
Harrisburg, PA17120

Pennsylvania Sheriff's Association2426 North 2nd St.Harrisburg, PA17110

The occasional bolding of text is the computer's fault, not mine.

[thelemite]

Great Job! Did you send a copy to the Sheriff as well?

Letter sent as follows:
The occasional bolding of text is the computer's fault, not mine.

[Fraggle09027]

Monroe county is also in violation of the UFA with its requirement that references need to be from Monroe.

You beat me to it

2 References (Must be Monroe County Residents - Please refer to full instruction sheet for reference requirements)

But Carbon also has that requirement. What would happen at renewal if I said screw it and used lehigh county references. It would get denied, if I felt like doing that and spending money I do not have would it be over turned on appeal???

[Statkowski]

Did you send a copy to the Sheriff as well?

No, why should I tell Sheriff Martin something he already knows?