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December 21st, 2015, 06:53 PM #1Member
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Force of Law and "No Weapons Allowed" signs
Does anyone know if PA has FOL with the "No Weapons Allowed" signs. I just avoid these businesses and usually e-mail corporate headquarters, if possible, and explain that they won't be seeing me or my money with that attitude. I understand that an owner, building or business, has every right to dictate to do this, but to me, this is just creating a "gun-free" zone and we all know how well that idea works. I think that PA does not have a FOL and the worst thing that can happen is the owner can ask me to leave if I am in his store carrying concealed and he sees the firearm. If I don't leave, then it is a trespass infraction. But now, someone said PA has FOL and it is a felony if caught in "No Weapons Allowed" establishment. Could someone please clarify? Also, list any stores you have encountered that are "No Weapons Allowed" stores.
-=BDD=-
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December 21st, 2015, 07:20 PM #2
Re: Force of Law and "No Weapons Allowed" signs
The typical FOL is through the trespass statute in Pa ( 18 Pa CS 3503 ). Staying after being asked to leave once you enter contrary to signage is a grading enhancement elevating the violation from a summary charge to an M3.
I suppose it can be argued that in an occupied business the trespass could raise to an F2 under 3503(a)(1)(i) but I've never heard of it happening.Last edited by tl_3237; December 21st, 2015 at 07:26 PM.
IANAL
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December 21st, 2015, 07:20 PM #3
Re: Force of Law and "No Weapons Allowed" signs
The signs don't really carry any force of law. You are somewhat correct. If a business has properly posted the sign, then that could be considered your notice not to carry a weapon there. They wouldn't have to ask you to leave, they could call the cops and have you trespassed off the property. Whether a place is posted or not if you are asked to leave and don't that would be defiant trespass. There's differing degrees of trespassing in PA.
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December 21st, 2015, 07:22 PM #4
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December 21st, 2015, 07:25 PM #5
Re: Force of Law and "No Weapons Allowed" signs
Check out this thread on the issue. In post 14 Twency quotes gunlawyer and his opinion which is alway worth the time imo.
http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=182569
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December 21st, 2015, 07:32 PM #6
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December 21st, 2015, 10:11 PM #7
Re: Force of Law and "No Weapons Allowed" signs
The signs do have force of law.... be careful with the advice you are giving. You couldn't just be trespassed off the property, you could be arrested without verbal warning based on the posted signage.
(b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
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December 22nd, 2015, 03:17 AM #8
Re: Force of Law and "No Weapons Allowed" signs
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law
What is the manner prescribed by law???
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December 22nd, 2015, 09:25 AM #9Banned
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The land o' cotton, old times there are not forgotten
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Re: Force of Law and "No Weapons Allowed" signs
I can't read English and most of the supposed "no guns" signs with the circle/slash are just saying "No Beretta 92s" so I'm good to go since I don't carry a Beretta.
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December 22nd, 2015, 09:26 AM #10
Re: Force of Law and "No Weapons Allowed" signs
This is a semantics argument that we've had on here before. There is no law like Ohio has in pa expressly giving "no guns" signs force of law. They are treated the same as any other"no trespassing" sign and the force of law comes from the trespassing statutes. My fault not being as clear as TL, but I did explain there are consequences for ignoring a sign. Again it's kinda a semantics argument. It's still illegal either way.
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