My negative encounter with an OC'er today.

[YllwFvr]

Im willing to flex my rights in a police encounter (now that ive screwed up in one) but I would have at least heard him out. I would treat it as I would any person walking up to me in a gas station. Listen to what they have to say then go from there.

[Kimba]

I applaud your approach.... very decent of you to try to warn him of the inspection violation without issuing a ticket...

Nothing wrong with your interest in his M&P trigger....

However, as 'emsjeep' suggested, that reaction is the result of other 'BROTHERS IN BLUE' giving OCer's a hard time without cause.... You can't really blame him for being apprehensive of your 'out of the blue' interest.....

Sometimes, the stick-togetherness of cops is going to bring unwanted (and even unwarranted) ricochets of attitude...

Still, he could (and should) have been a bit more friendly long enough to see where the conversation was going....

And I suspect your Back-Atcha-Buddy attitude in response to his question will likely set his attitude just a bit deeper....

I can understand the tit-for-tat response, but I'm not sure anyone benefitted from either response...


...
ID

I agree with the OP for handling things the way he did. I have said before, I will treat others as they treat me. If they give me attitude, that is what they will get in return. If they show me respect, I will treat them with rerspect.


Good job and don't judge all OCers by this mans actions.

[ithinkimamedic]

I think you handled it quite well. Could have gone a lot better and I'm not buying the whole "nerves" thing, sounds like he was just over zealous from the get go no matter your intent. He took it to stereo type you as "just another cop who's got and issue with OC'ing and is going to give him shit", which in my eyes is just as bad as every cop who looks at someone OC'ing and pulling shenanigans.

I own you a beer!

[NEPAdestroyer]

i have to call bullsh*t on that one. it was fine to let the OCer off with a warning until he flexed his rights in your face?... then you decited to pull him over to ticket him? kinda' a punk move big boss man...
i guess cops don't have to turn the other cheek.
was that guy a dick? yeah. but well with in his rights too.. you said you were only gonna' warn him in the first place... but then, oh how dare he not want to talk to you! sounds to me like you have a big old BBQ chippy on your shoulder for people who question your authority.... (then again i myself am not one for authority figures, so please take much of what i say with a big ass grain of salt) so, you still redicked the original dick. good for him. but, please think of this as if you were a civie. what would you have done? call the cops on him? and said "oh this guy was mean to me"? futhermore people don't care about vehicle registration... why should you? matter of fact next time stop and think to yourself... would this offence be something someone would call a cop about? if not, let the guy go. why? because if the people don't care about whatever offence you are writing that ticket for maybe....just maybe it's a law not worth enforcing. <3 peace.

[Franky4Fingers]

Consider, amonst all the other stuff, that this has made the rounds of every firearms board in the United States. http://paopencarry.org/forum/dont-ta...5.html#pid3638

You could be a great COP trying to be nice and letting him know his inspection is up, or you could be using it to start a conversation he doesn't want to have that might lead to you getting a good look into his windows, finding out he has been drinking or any of 1000 other things. I guess one of the downsides of being in uniform is that no one ever really knows what your intentions are, and for people who are a little slow (or inexperianced and nervous)...and easily frightened by situations they don't understand, yeah I could see someone just wanting to be away from the Police as fast as possible...

yeaaaaaaaaah..........but. thats the risk you take talking to anyone. If a stranger comes up to you, you can assume he wants money. If your annoying mother in law wants to talk to you you can assume shes going to nag you. If you date a girl you can assume some day your going to get dumped. You can crash when you get into a aircraft/automobile............ but you do it anyhow.

Its called being civil and living life. Nothing is perfect and you handle each situation as it comes.

[Franky4Fingers]

i have to call bullsh*t on that one. it was fine to let the OCer off with a warning until he flexed his rights in your face?... then you decited to pull him over to ticket him? kinda' a punk move big boss man...
i guess cops don't have to turn the other cheek.
was that guy a dick? yeah. but well with in his rights too.. you said you were only gonna' warn him in the first place... but then, oh how dare he not want to talk to you! sounds to me like you have a big old BBQ chippy on your shoulder for people who question your authority.... (then again i myself am not one for authority figures, so please take much of what i say with a big ass grain of salt) so, you still redicked the original dick. good for him. but, please think of this as if you were a civie. what would you have done? call the cops on him? and said "oh this guy was mean to me"? futhermore people don't care about vehicle registration... why should you? matter of fact next time stop and think to yourself... would this offence be something someone would call a cop about? if not, let the guy go. why? because if the people don't care about whatever offence you are writing that ticket for maybe....just maybe it's a law not worth enforcing. <3 peace.

I don't see what the officer did was wrong. If I remember back in college to my law enforcement class......the cop has the discretion of how he's going to enforce said law according to the situation at hand.....BUT, it would be unlawful of the officer to witness a crime and leave the crime go.

He saw this guys inspection was out. He was obligated to do SOMETHING. Its in his discretion to issue a warning, which he tried to do....when that failed. He pulled the man over.

[Agent Smith]

i have to call bullsh*t on that one. it was fine to let the OCer off with a warning until he flexed his rights in your face?... then you decited to pull him over to ticket him? kinda' a punk move big boss man...
i guess cops don't have to turn the other cheek.
was that guy a dick? yeah. but well with in his rights too.. you said you were only gonna' warn him in the first place... but then, oh how dare he not want to talk to you! sounds to me like you have a big old BBQ chippy on your shoulder for people who question your authority.... (then again i myself am not one for authority figures, so please take much of what i say with a big ass grain of salt) so, you still redicked the original dick. good for him. but, please think of this as if you were a civie. what would you have done? call the cops on him? and said "oh this guy was mean to me"? futhermore people don't care about vehicle registration... why should you? matter of fact next time stop and think to yourself... would this offence be something someone would call a cop about? if not, let the guy go. why? because if the people don't care about whatever offence you are writing that ticket for maybe....just maybe it's a law not worth enforcing. <3 peace.

*Bold is mine

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day. Why should he care about vehicle registration? because it's his job to uphold the law, and last time I checked, it is illegal to drive on an expired inspection. Many people would argue that certain laws aren't worth enforcing, but that doesn't mean they should not be enforced only because some people don't agree with it.

It's up to the officers discretion whether to issue a warning or a ticket. In my experience, when you show respect to an officer, you're more likely to be let off with a warning. This guy was plain rude, so I would have issued him a ticket as well.

[GunLawyer001]

i have to call bullsh*t on that one. it was fine to let the OCer off with a warning until he flexed his rights in your face?... then you decited to pull him over to ticket him? kinda' a punk move big boss man...
i guess cops don't have to turn the other cheek.
was that guy a dick? yeah. but well with in his rights too.. you said you were only gonna' warn him in the first place... but then, oh how dare he not want to talk to you! sounds to me like you have a big old BBQ chippy on your shoulder for people who question your authority.... (then again i myself am not one for authority figures, so please take much of what i say with a big ass grain of salt) so, you still redicked the original dick. good for him. but, please think of this as if you were a civie. what would you have done? call the cops on him? and said "oh this guy was mean to me"? futhermore people don't care about vehicle registration... why should you? matter of fact next time stop and think to yourself... would this offence be something someone would call a cop about? if not, let the guy go. why? because if the people don't care about whatever offence you are writing that ticket for maybe....just maybe it's a law not worth enforcing. <3 peace.

I've heard that anger management classes are open to the public; you may wish to check them out.

I think the lesson here from the encounter (which on further reflection sounds almost TOO perfect an example of the textbook "PAFOA guy with a recorder asserts his rights in the wrong way" encounter) is that if you're going to be an absolutist and push your rights balls-to-the-wall in a rude manner, then make sure that you're in full compliance with the entire PA Crimes Code, the PA Vehicle Code, your local ordinances, and the entire Federal Code. Since it's humanly impossible to be familiar with the current version of all of these (some of which the Legislators have not even bothered to read), a little politeness would be appropriate if you'd like an LEO to cut you a break.

And to put this in perspective, I criticize cops, DA's and lawmakers at least half the time. I call each case like I see it. When you say that you won't bend an inch, don't whine when you get that back.

[emsjeep]

yeaaaaaaaaah..........but. thats the risk you take talking to anyone. If a stranger comes up to you, you can assume he wants money. If your annoying mother in law wants to talk to you you can assume shes going to nag you. If you date a girl you can assume some day your going to get dumped. You can crash when you get into a aircraft/automobile............ but you do it anyhow.

Its called being civil and living life. Nothing is perfect and you handle each situation as it comes.

Strangers and non-LEOs aren't gathering evidence, you can walk away from any of these people if you wish...I think you missed the point here. Even if they mean to be, and want to be, a COP is not your friend, they aren't looking out for you, they are looking out for the law, and so you must always be on the defensive. What this guy did might have been over the top but I understand why someone who is conscious of the potential consequences of talking would want to avoid any encounter.


This guy wasted his opportunity to end this with a verbal warning, and clearly something needed to be done. If the OP was intent on giving him a warning he could have done so at any point, but was never obligated to do it. Its pure charity that he didn't just write a ticket from the get-go, so claiming that he escalated the offense unecessarily isn't going to fly. Oh well, too bad, should have checked the date on your inspection.

[emsjeep]

I've heard that anger management classes are open to the public; you may wish to check them out.

I think the lesson here from the encounter (which on further reflection sounds almost TOO perfect an example of the textbook "PAFOA guy with a recorder asserts his rights in the wrong way" encounter) is that if you're going to be an absolutist and push your rights balls-to-the-wall in a rude manner, then make sure that you're in full compliance with the entire PA Crimes Code, the PA Vehicle Code, your local ordinances, and the entire Federal Code. Since it's humanly impossible to be familiar with the current version of all of these (some of which the Legislators have not even bothered to read), a little politeness would be appropriate if you'd like an LEO to cut you a break.

And to put this in perspective, I criticize cops, DA's and lawmakers at least half the time. I call each case like I see it. When you say that you won't bend an inch, don't whine when you get that back.

I'm sure you know all too well what a simple conversation with a determined LEO can lead to. Once people start talking it doesn't end until they leave under arrest, once they are comfortable, they just don't know how or when to shut up. I am wary of advising anyone to actually engage in any lengthy conversation with a PO, to consent to an interrogation or to "just have a short talk"...I mean, they are trained to extract information.