LTCF renewal: This ought to be fun...

[NineseveN]

So my permit is about to expire and I need to renew, so I'm going tomorrow afternoon. I moved from Cambria County to Indiana County on March 1st. The Indiana County Sheriff's website states:

Q. Who are qualified references?
A. References must be:
1. Residents of Indiana County for at least 3 years.
2. Must be 21 years of age.
3. Cannot live in the same household.
4. Cannot be a relative by blood or marriage.

There is no way in hell I'm going to have known anyone here long enough to trust them with the knowledge that I own and carry firearms. It's one thing for long-time friends or relatives to know, or for mostly anonymous gun-owning people on the internet that I don't live a few blocks over from to know, but at this point, I'd almost have to get complete strangers to be references. So I'm going to use the references I would normally use for anything else, people that I have known for 10 or more years that know I own guns and carry (they do too), both of which are in Allegheny County.

Anyone want to bet that they refuse to process the application?



http://www.countyofindiana.org/?q=shgunper

[markheck1]

Funny, I don't remember seeing that requirement in the LAW

[mjf]

Yeah... we should go shooting sometime.

[shefearsnothing]

Well your firs two references could always be:


Rich Banks and Greg Rotz.....

[NineseveN]

Yeah... we should go shooting sometime.

PM inbound.

[HiredGoon]

Well your firs two references could always be:


Rich Banks and Greg Rotz.....

Oh, geeze, not those two again

[HiredGoon]

Q. Who are qualified references?
A. References must be:

1. Residents of Indiana County for at least 3 years.
2. Must be 21 years of age.
3. Cannot live in the same household.
4. Cannot be a relative by blood or marriage.

All the application says about references is:

30. TWO REFERENCES – NOT FAMILY MEMBERS

[headcase]

So my permit is about to expire and I need to renew, so I'm going tomorrow afternoon. I moved from Cambria County to Indiana County on March 1st. The Indiana County Sheriff's website states:



There is no way in hell I'm going to have known anyone here long enough to trust them with the knowledge that I own and carry firearms. It's one thing for long-time friends or relatives to know, or for mostly anonymous gun-owning people on the internet that I don't live a few blocks over from to know, but at this point, I'd almost have to get complete strangers to be references. So I'm going to use the references I would normally use for anything else, people that I have known for 10 or more years that know I own guns and carry (they do too), both of which are in Allegheny County.

Anyone want to bet that they refuse to process the application?



http://www.countyofindiana.org/?q=shgunper

Just for shits and giggles, I am going to climb out on the limb and say they process you with no questions about the references and you get your LTCF with no snags

[HiredGoon]

Just for shits and giggles, I am going to climb out on the limb and say they process you with no questions about the references and you get your LTCF with no snags

Aw gee, now that wouldn't be any fun, would it?

[ChamberedRound]

My take on the references issue is that while it isn't codified into law, the Sheriffs get away with it by claiming it's part of their investigation into one's "character and reputation".

Get two references and send in the application, regardless of where in PA they live. If he denies you, appeal the decision. He'll have to give a reason for the denial, and it will most likely be the drive-a-truck-through-it "character and reputation" loophole, which we all know is BS. While the Sheriff's claim will likely be he couldn't assess your character and reputation, your argument could be the same. If he couldn't assess said character, then how could he deny? In addition, while you have no references local to the county, you do have references, and an existing LTCF, which is proof that another Sheriff has vouched for you for the past 5 years.

I know it sucks to have to go the legal route, but I have to believe a lawyer could make a valid case for you. Besides, the only other choice is to NOT apply, which isn't really a choice.

Just for shits and giggles, I am going to climb out on the limb and say they process you with no questions about the references and you get your LTCF with no snags

Agreed. It's likely the Sheriff is just playing the mis-information game in the hopes that it discourages newcomers from applying, hoping they won't call his bluff.