Allegheny County Sheriff office - Wrong/Incorrect info ?

[HiredGoon]

no. under the previous administration (defazio), they issued LTCFs on the spot and did not give out any flyer or other information with them. the LTCFs also did not incorrectly state that you cannot carry in airports (including unsecured areas of airports) on the back of them.

i don't really know mullen or much about him, but purely from the standpoint of LTCF issuance, he is not a good guy. he has needlessly made the process take longer/be more of a hassle, and he (or his subordinates...for whom he is responsible) is giving out incorrect information under the color of authority. the latter is not a trivial issue.

OK, got it

BTW, any type of flyer mentioning reciprocity should not even list the states, as they are subject to change, they should just tell you to go to the AG's website to see which states we have current reciprocity with. That way the flyers will not be out of date on this issue.

[indianjack]

I'm betting it is out of date. I only recently got my PA LTCF because I work in WV and that reciprocity hasn't be in place all that long.

[headcase]

Here's one for ya, OP....

Click this link and print out a bunch, and replace the stack on the table with them

[archangel689]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the replies.

I did want to clarify, these were just sort of sitting in a stack near the door, on a small table I think. They weren't making you take one etc, just there if you wanted to grab one etc.

Not that it really changes anything, just wanted to make sure no one thought that I meant I was "forced" to take one, or handed one with my LTCF etc.

Thanks again, I love this site

Doesn't matter. This flyer perpetuates the belief that OC is illegal. A lot of people on here are working to reverse that belief...So your stupid neighbors will be reporting you because you OC and uninformed cops will try to arrest you because you OC. It needs to be dealt with.

[Ed in PA]

Hey I'm a reserve deputy. But you must understand the reserve division is not part of the firearms division. I can not get involved in this in any official capacity. I don't even know anyone in the firearms division to make a call.

My advice is to contact the commander of the firearms division or the Sheriff himself. BTW Sheriff Bill Mullen is a good guy.

Dave-

You should get to know the firearms division...VERY WELL. I enjoy the scenery when I have to go down there. I've walked a few people through applying for their LTCFs.

[Ed in PA]

Here's one for ya, OP....

Click this link and print out a bunch, and replace the stack on the table with them

I have them printed for the OP, I just have to get them down there.

[JerzeeBred]

It kills me when people attempt to force their opinion on people as the law.

[panther76]

On the subject of the new sheriff and LTCF...

I went to renew my permit right after Mullen took over from Defazio, unaware of the change in administration. My previous permit had taken literally ten minutes from the time I walked in until the time I walked out, renewed permit in hand. So I figured it shouldn't be a big deal. Boy was I wrong.

I was the only person in the firearms office, other than the two people working there. One was a deputy, the other a civilian. I was told by the deputy that it was now a "two step" process because of "changes to instant check", and that it takes thirty days.

I told the deputy I was on leave from active duty in the military, and showed her my ID and DA31 (orders). I explained that I knew my permit was technically still good, but really wanted to get a new card while I was home, as I'd be carrying out of state under reciprocity. And that I couldn't just come back to pick it up.

In response the deputy gets an attitude, wags her finger (with ridiculous fake nails that CAN'T be regulation), and tells me that it doesn't matter if I'm in the military, that my permit expires just like everyone else. The civilian working there informed the deputy that she was wrong. So then she says, in a snarky tone, I should just carry with my old "expired" card, if that is the case.

At that point I was pretty annoyed and asked to speak to her supervisor. The deputy at first refused but the civilian picked up the phone called someone. They asked to talk to the deputy. The deputy had a brief conversation with her supervisor, hangs up and says they'll do my permit but that they are making an "exception" and not to get an "attitude" with her.

After fifteen minutes of arguing, it only took another fifteen minutes for them to call the instant check and make a new LTCF card with my new photo on it. As I was walking out, someone else had come in, and was told "it takes thirty days". I didn't say anything but just shook my head. Bottom line, the new policy and any explanation for it is total B.S.

So as for Mullen, he may be a swell guy for those who know him personally, but he is anti-gun, politically, which makes him a P.O.S. in my book.

[ragu1macrider]

Hi everyone, I've been meaning to post this for a while, but was waiting until I could get my hands on a scanner so you can see what I'm talking about.

I recently got my LTCF here in Allegheny County, went pretty smoothly, much easier than I thought it would be actually.

While I was waiting at the courthouse for my turn to actually pick up my license, I noticed they had a stack of pamphlets, so I grabbed one to check out later.

It's titled "A message to gun owners", about 6 pages long, has most of the basic safety info, general gun handling practices etc, pretty good stuff.

But then on the last page, titled "Prohibited areas to carry & concealment of firearms", there are two things that concern me.

First is this statement near the top:

"Firearms must be concealed on your person and not be visible to the general public".

Now on this one, I suppose you could make the argument that they are talking in terms of CC only, however the pamphlet isn't specifically for CC, and what bothers me is the inference that OC is not allowed, which we all know isn't true.

Item # 2 bothers me even more, most of the rest of this page is a reciprocity map, and it has several states listed incorrectly.

Specifically, as compared to multiple maps I have looked at online, including the one on this site (http://www.pafoa.org/resources/pafoa...rocity_map.gif) the states that seem wrong to me are:

Vermont
West Virginia
Virginia
Arkansas
Louisiana
North Dakota
Colorado
Arizona
Oklahoma

Below is a scan of the page I am referring to. I guess mainly I'm just wondering what y'alls thoughts are about this. Do you think it would do any good to write them a polite letter informing them that they are handing out incorrect info ?

I guess the map part really bothers me, because you would think if anyone would know the actual LAWS regarding carrying weapons, it would be the sheriff's office.

I think most, if not all, of the incorrectly listed states are states that DO honor PA permits, so at least it's not the other way around, but still, geesh !

Anyhow, just wanted to get that off of my chest, if anyone has any thoughts please feel free to share. Thanks !

Note - on the scan, it may be hard to see the legend, but basically it is:

Blue = "States with which PA has existing firearm reciprocity agreement"

Red = "States which recognize PA permit holders without reciprocity agreement"

Green = "States which do not have an agreement with PA"

Also the map is dated November 2006, so I don't know when/if any of these may have changed to what they are now.

(Scan below)

This is the most up to date map I could find.

[danp]

This is the most up to date map I could find.

I believe ours is generally always the most up to date (and more detailed):

http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-fi...ry/reciprocity