PICS Denial Transfer Legal Implications 302 Dismissed

[analysis]

Could someone please tell me what the hell is going on?

This evening, I went to the local gun dealer with my aunt to get my pistol transferred back into my name.

Jump back to September of 2007: I was admitted to a psychiatric hospital for severe panic attacks and depression. I went in voluntarily to obtain outpatient treatment. A family member who went with me convinced the shrinks to admit me on a 302. After several days of observation, I was subject to a 302/303 hearing whereupon the following official record of UPMC WPIC was put into writing:

"...During court hearing for 302, pt's mother did not show, and pt's girlfriend and aunt and uncle were present to support pt. The case was withdrawn, and pt was prepared for discharge. Throughout stay, pt was very concerned with the legal issues pertaining to the 302 hearing, specifically regarding his gun rights, and was instructed to follow-up with oupt psychiatrist for letter stating appropriateness for gun owenership."

Upon leaving the hospital, I transferred ownership of my weapons to my aunt, who held them for me until I sought the advice of the Pennsylvania State Police, the County Sheriff's Office which issued my license to carry and the advice of legal counsel.

Reading an account online of a man who, after being discharged from a mental institution was visited by a local State Police Trooper who seized his firearms and gun safe, along with other accounts of people who had been 302'd receiving letters in the mail informing them that they must surrender their license to carry, I became very concerned.

I called the local sheriff's office several times regarding my license to carry, every time being told that no information had been transmitted to them to revoke the license. I called several local State Police barracks as well as Harrisburg to ascertain as to whether my second ammendment rights had been revoked. A trooper in Belle Vernon told me that such requests to disarm citizens were usually carried out within two weeks. I received no information whatsoever from the Commonwealth regarding limitations to my gun ownership rights. After several months and no reprecussion of any kind, along with an official 302/303 hearing transcript in hand which stated explicitly that the 302 had been dismissed as well as the 303, along with discussion with the public defender of the initial hearing and discussion with my lawyer, I was certain that the 302/303 decision had been vacated and / or the initial petition for 302 was not transmitted to Harrisburg in the timeframe of the statute of limitations.

Therefore, on my application for transfer of ownership of my S/A .45 back to myself, I marked that I had not been involuntarily hospitalized or adjucated incompetent. I've taken a law course and was taught that a dismissal or vacation of a charge is treated in law as never having occured.

In this full capacity of my knowledge, I marked that I had never been adjucated incompetent.

Transfer denied.

Legal reprecussions?

I found out that sworn affirmations on the forms I filled out from reading the Penn Criminal Code can consitute a felony with a maximum sentence of 15 years imprisonment.

Several weeks ago, I obtained a totally clear criminal background check via the State Police and Cogent, am a former Private Investigator, still eligible for relicense, posess a license to carry concealed firearms in PA and the only criminal charge I have ever had on my record was a careless driving summary offense, which I am contesting and am confident will be dismissed.

What happens now?

Is it possible that I could be arrested for construed misinformation on a pistol ownership document submitted to PICS? Are the cops going to arrest me? Should I appeal the decision and explain the circumstances or is that going to put me in more jeopardy for criminal prosecution than I'm already in?

I don't understand why this all occured. I went without my gun for a year, but now that I want to move to the city, I simply want it back for self-defense. What do I have to do? What do I have to do to get my gun back? Homewood and Swissvale aren't safe places. What happened to the second ammendment? Now, after being robbed and nearly executed a few years ago, and simply wanting to protect myself, I can't.

--Thomas

[jud4420]

Im not a lawyer but i can tell you this.. A 302 even though is not barring form ownership, will still flag on PICS. You'll probably have to send in an appeal with the documentation of your hospitalization. If its a clear as you say, you should not have much of a problem there.

I would highly doubt the sheriff is going to come mess with you over this, but anything IS possible.

Ive seen so many problems over this same thing. I dont know why the put 302 in the paperwork and statute, when a 302 is not barring in itself.

Good luck. Dont panic.

[Pa. Patriot]

You need to follow the instructions on the challenge form. And send it in.

[GunLawyer001]

The police can prosecute anyone who willfully lies on the form, but in practice they will not go after anyone who makes an honest mistake.

Where the paperwork was in error, the only way to correct the database is to file the challenge form, and I would attach copies of any paperwork from the incident, and perhaps a written statement of your own. If you explain what happened in detail, you make it easier for the State Police to track down confirmation of your story, because knowing what's there will always make it easier to find it.

[analysis]

Challenge form with written statement and attachments sent Priority Mail last Friday. Shows as delivered Monday, Tuesday was a Holiday and after calling today, they still don't confirm receipt. At least I may be able to talk to someone tomorrow or Friday. Thanks for all of the advice, everyone, and should everything come out alright, I'll probably do a small piece on the matter, if anyone should be interested and for people who face the same problem in the future. Should I get tied up in a bunch of red tape, I'll write a large article.

--Thomas

[knight0334]

Some have a bone to pick with the PSP, but their challenge system does work well for those unjustly denied on a PICS call. Of course there are the few that have to be appealed higher - but for the most part if the denial was wrong, it will get reversed. Some of the things that gets flagged just needs and explanation to clear up uncertainties.

If, most likely when, the denial is reversed - you will get a letter in the mail stating such. Expect delays or transfers to the operator during a PICS call from then on out.

[Shadekat]

One of the many reasons if i would need to get some assistance, noone would go with me that i know period. Cant get there, i'd rather call up an ambulance or taxi than have a family member misrepresent me, which happens easily when people are emotional, the brains turn off, and they just do "what they think is best for you". I'm not anti mental health by any means, just that it's human nature.

[Ten*K]

The police can prosecute anyone who willfully lies on the form, but in practice they will not go after anyone who makes an honest mistake.

and just switch that for ATF.

anyway, there is a difference between Voluntary and Involuntary 302's. recognizing you need professional help and going to get it for a mental health crisis means you you aren't crazy. unfortunately, once the "system" gets a hold of you , it never lets go. Keep your documents together, keep your cool, and file the challenge.

[Damage control]

I'm not a lawyer but it is my understanding that as long as you still have a valid LTCF you can in fact carry any legal hand gun. It is not limited to guns that are in your name only.

I'm sure someone can explain this better than I just did.


DC

[GunLawyer001]

I'm not a lawyer but it is my understanding that as long as you still have a valid LTCF you can in fact carry any legal hand gun. It is not limited to guns that are in your name only.

I'm sure someone can explain this better than I just did.


DC

You don't violate PA carry laws by carrying a handgun last sold through a dealer to someone else.

However, you may have violated PA transfer laws, depending upon how you came into its possession.