What is "part of the record"? Gunlawyer or archon maybe?

[shefearsnothing]

Ok, if a, letter for example, is "marked as an exhibit" but is not "entered as evidence" however said letter is "stipulated to"....is it really "not part of the record"? Therefore making it not public record and a copy unobtainable? Is there no way to ever get a copy of said letter?

[headcase]

Ok, if a, letter for example, is "marked as an exhibit" but is not "entered as evidence" however said letter is "stipulated to"....is it really "not part of the record"? Therefore making it not public record and a copy unobtainable? Is there no way to ever get a copy of said letter?

Did you try to FOIA it, or ask your lawyer to request a copy for his records?

[shefearsnothing]

I actually JUST got a reply from Bob (my attorney) He said I am not going to be allowed to have a copy. Slimey bastards. Although.....I don't know if that letter is safe just yet....(Oh I am talking about the letter sent to the sheriff that got me revoked).

[headcase]

I actually JUST got a reply from Bob (my attorney) He said I am not going to be allowed to have a copy. Slimey bastards. Although.....I don't know if that letter is safe just yet....(Oh I am talking about the letter sent to the sheriff that got me revoked).

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to get a copy from a FOIA request for all the correspondance that had to do with your revokation. Maybe not from the trial records or whatever, but from the sheriff's office...no?

[shefearsnothing]

What is an FOIA request? Is that like a right to know? If so...have I got a story for you!

[FFEMT128]

Freedom of Information maybe? I think that's what it is...

[shefearsnothing]

Ok, here is what I found on that...

The FOIA applies only to federal agencies and does not create a right of access to records held by Congress, the courts, or by state or local government agencies. Each state has its own public access laws that should be consulted for access to state and local records.

[HyDef]

The section in bold is the one that describes what is considered a "public record". I see some wording which would suggest that it would be a public record and some wording suggesting that it may be withheld.


A brief description of the PA Right to Know Law, as found in more detail in reading the exact statute 65 P.S. 66.1-66.9, is as follows:

An Act requiring certain records of the Commonwealth and its political subdivisions and of certain authorities and other agencies performing essential governmental functions, to be open for examination and inspection by citizens of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania; authorizing such citizens under certain conditions to make extracts, copies, photographs or photostats of such records; and providing for appeals to the courts of common pleas. The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania hereby enacts as follows:


Section 1. In this act the following terms shall have the following meanings:

(1) "Agency." Any department, board or commission of the executive branch of the Commonwealth, any political subdivision of the Commonwealth, the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission, or any State or Municipal authority or similar organization created by or pursuant to statute which declares in substance that such organization performs or has for its purpose the performance of an essential governmental function.

(2) "Public Record." Any account, voucher or contract dealing with the receipt or disbursement of funds by an agency or its acquisition, use or disposal of services or of supplies, materials, equipment or other property and any minute, order or decision by an agency fixing the personal or property rights, privileges, immunities, duties or obligations of any person or group of persons: Provided, that the term "public records" shall not mean any report, communication or other paper, the publication of which would disclose the institution, progress or result of an investigation undertaken by an agency in the performance of its official duties, except those reports filed by agencies pertaining to safety and health in industrial plants; it shall not include any record, document, material, exhibit, pleading, report, memorandum or other paper, access to or the publication of which is prohibited, restricted or forbidden by statute law or order or decree of court, or which would operate to the prejudice or impairment of a person's reputation or personal security, or which would result in the loss by the Commonwealth or any of its political subdivisions or commissions or State or municipal authorities of Federal funds, excepting therefrom however the record of any conviction for any criminal act.


Section 2. Every public record of an agency shall, at reasonable times, be open for examination and inspection by any citizen of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.


Section 3. Any citizen of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania shall have the right to a take extracts or make copies of public records and to make photographs or photostats of the same while such records are in the possession, custody and control of the lawful custodian thereof or his authorized deputy. The lawful custodian of such records shall have the right to adopt and enforce reasonable rules governing the making of such extracts, copies, photographs or photostats.


Section 4. Any citizen of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania denied any right granted to him by section 2 or section 3 of this act, may appeal from such denial. If such court determines that such denial was not for just and proper cause under the terms of this act, it may enter such order for disclosure as it may deem proper.
APPROVED The 21st day of June, A.D. 1957.

[shefearsnothing]

Oh the sheriff has already flat out REFUSED to relinquish ANYTHING when he received a right to know request. He said everything of his is PRIVILAGED information and that he doesn't have to turn it over to ANYONE. Oddly enough...the city and the county both complied....they don't have possession of this letter I want to see though.

[gnbrotz]

Here is a point to consider. Pa.'s Right To Know Law will be changing in January 2009, giving citizen's much broader access to materials they are currently not entitles to. Also, as I understand it, this law is retroactive, so there may be some document which is validly withheld currently, but will not be protected when the new law takes effect.

FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) is a Federal measure. State law provides it's own standards and here in Pa. is known as the "Right To Know" law. Also, I'm not offering my opinion publicly on whether or not the letter in question would be covered under current law.

As far as "stipulation" in a court of law, my non-lawyer understanding is that evidence must be presented in some form to establish 'fact' before the court. In some cases, parties stipulate to - meaning they agree on - a specific fact. There is no need to present the supporting evidence, since stipulation by the opposing party means they won't dispute that particular point.

An example - let's say I'm personally involved in a case where the opposing counsel asks for a list of all the guns I own, including ones I have bought and sold over the course of my life. I would fully resist disclosing such info unless compelled by the judge to do so. If such a tactic were meant to establish that I am "a firearms enthusiast", I would stipulate to that fact, thus (hopefully) making the need for my ownership and purchase history of no significant interest to the court.