CCW SAFE is it really wort it?.

[GLOCK21163]

Ladies and Gents I just got my LTCF and I am planning to become a CCW SAFE member just in case I ever get involved in any self defense incident which I hope never happen but you never know. I was doing some research on the internet and I heard so many different opinions that now I don't know if it is a waste of money or not. Does anyone here knows anything about this?. I will really appreciate your help. THANKS.

[God's Country]

Honestly I don't know what it is or care.
IMO if it's some org that claims it will help defend you chances are their primary desire is to line their pockets with your fear.
Also IMO a good shoot is a good shoot. You have a right to defend yourself in Pa. Your money is better spent in training and Pa firearms law education.

If you still can't sleep at night your money would also be better spent working out some type of pre arranged retainer with a qualified Pa firearm law attorney.

[Bang]

It offers an insurance payment seemingly covering your legal expenses IF a court finds for you should you become a defendant stemming from use of a firearm on another person. If the court finds you in the wrong, you are on your own. I would investigate well if considering it, looking for any requirements affecting collection that you have to ask about that they may not volunteer, in typical caveat emptor fashion. Google is your friend.

[HKusp 45]

There are several options available that provide insurance in the event you need legal counsel some only protect you if you are found not guilty, also some only reimburse you while others pay up front no matter what provided you were not involved in an obviou crime IE: burglary, carjacking etc. Do some research and figure out what would best suit your needs and if you feel the need to have said insurance. I've toyed with the idea myself and am stll yet to pull the trigger without seeing wo has actually benefited from these types of services.

[JoshIronshaft]

I was looking at second call defense for the same purpose.

[alpacaheat]

If you are wondering if it will be worth it, I'd look at USCCA. They offer you a lot of training materials, content, a nice magazine and other perks of membership along with the insurance coverage so it doesn't feel like you're pouring money down the drain and getting nothing in return.

I highly recommend them.

[Orlov556]

Honestly I don't know what it is or care.
IMO if it's some org that claims it will help defend you chances are their primary desire is to line their pockets with your fear.
Also IMO a good shoot is a good shoot. You have a right to defend yourself in Pa. Your money is better spent in training and Pa firearms law education.

If you still can't sleep at night your money would also be better spent working out some type of pre arranged retainer with a qualified Pa firearm law attorney.

Quoted for truth. These companies do not exist to protect you, they exist to make money (like any company, really). I see them on the same level as the home warranty companies. They take your money quickly but give you hell when it is time to make a claim.

[Orlov556]

Found this on Defensivecarry forum. Dont know if there is any truth to it, so read and digest at your own peril:


Warning: CCWSafe's services are extremely misleading!

I'm afraid some of you, and perhaps all of you, do not understand what you are and are not getting when you purchase a membership with CCWSafe and other similar companies.

Most of you probably hold the false impression that, in the extremely unlikely event you A.) Are involved in a defensive shooting, and B.) the details of that shooting are so murky that you're criminally charged, CCWSafe is going to cover all of your legal expenses. I mean, that's the idea you get when you buy this membership, correct?

Nope. CCWSafe is essentially a networking and assisting service only. CCWSafe's lawyers are not actually going to be the lawyers who file with the court to represent you. Let me explain:

For those of you who bothered to read their terms of service, you might have seen this passage: "Representation to include securing of legal services and investigative services from CCWSafe attorneys and network law firms."

Note they used the word "securing", not "providing". I.e., they will work to help you find a lawyer who will actually represent you in all hearings and at trial. But CCWSafe's lawyers will not themselves actually be your lawyer of record, as everyone falsely believes. You'll have to pay for your lawyer out of your own pocket, and that ain't gonna be cheap.

But for those of you still not convinced, keep in mind the following:

1. CCWSafe has five "regional attorneys", one of whom will be assigned to your case in the event the very unlikely trigger event happens. Now, let's use me as an example. I live in Washington State. If I was to buy a CCWSafe membership, my "regional attorney" would be their guy in Utah. He is the "regional attorney" for 11 Western states. And here's the thing. Since I live in Washington State, their "regional attorney" can't represent me in Washington State unless he is licensed with the Washington State Bar. Which I seriously doubt he is. So who will represent me? It will be the lawyer that CCWSafe helps me "secure", per their terms of service. And that lawyer will most certainly want to be paid! By you! Believe it or not, your $99 membership fee isn't going to cover the tens of thousands of dollars you'll actually need to spend for competent legal representation. Which brings me to my second point...

2. As CCWSafe says themselves, this is not an insurance policy. Insurance policies cover all your costs when a triggering event happens. Because your CCWSafe membership will not be covering all your costs, of even a fraction of those costs, it is not an "insurance policy". It is a "services agreement". And those services will NOT include actual payment to the lawyer you will need to hire. Which brings me to my next point...

3. When you pre-pay for legal services, you enter into what's known as a retainer agreement. But your CCWSafe membership is not a retainer agreement either. It is, once again, a "services agreement". If CCWSafe was actually going to be representing you in trial, you would be entering into a retainer agreement with them.

Now, some of you are probably thinking, "But wait...I've read their website 20 times, and they make it very clear that they are covering you completely in the event you are charged with shooting someone." And I would agree, they very strongly imply this. But the devil is always in the details, which are found in the confusing lawyer-written terms of service. What CCWSafe and these companies have done is, in my opinion, knowingly created such false impressions to sell extremely profitable $99 annual memberships. And when asked questions on forums, I've noticed that reps from CCWSafe and other similar companies very carefully and very "lawyerly" dance around what they're actually providing. Or to put it in less pleasant terms, they know darn well that the people who buy these "memberships" aren't getting what they think they're getting. And CCWSafe doesn't exactly go out of its way to correct this misperception. Which in my opinion is extremely unethical.

There will still be some of you who don't believe this. You'll say, "But if this was really what you say it is, we'd all know about it." Really? How would you know about it? By CCWSafe's admission, they haven't handled a single case yet. (That's precisely because the event they're "covering" is itself so rare, which might actually be an even better reason not to buy a membership in the first place.) I guarantee you the first person who needs their "services" is going to be in for a rude awakening when he finds out that he hasn't actually bought all the legal protection he thought he purchased.

Others might say, "Well, Larry Vickers endorses this service. And he's a stand-up guy!" Yes, I agree...he is a stand-up guy. And I'll bet money he's just as deluded as everyone else is when it comes to knowing what you really are and are not getting with these "concealed carry protection" schemes. He's been duped too.

If any of you STILL don't believe me, do this: Speak with someone at CCWSafe and ask them point blank..."If I shoot someone in self defense and am criminally charged, will one of YOUR lawyers be my 'lawyer of record' registered with my State judicial system?" CCWSafe will, I hope, then be honest with you and say "No." Or, they might dance around the subject until they know you're thoroughly confused and again carrying a false impression. They are lawyers, after all.

Sorry to break this to you folks. But after reading all the replies in this thread, and on many other forums, it's clear to me that 99.9% of you are confused about what services like CCWSafe do and do not provide. And it isn't all your fault that you're confused. In my opinion these companies darn well know that everyone is confused. That's sorta the point. If you knew that you'd still have to pay for a lawyer yourself, you wouldn't send them $99/year and they wouldn't be making the small fortune I'm certain they're making. They are preying on peoples' fear and naivety to sell these memberships. Fear in the sense that the statistical odds don't warrant you buying this membership even if it DID cover all your legal costs, and naivety in the sense that they know most people aren't lawyers and won't understand what they're buying. Or more to the point, what they are not buying.

Please spread the word. I hate it when "gun guys" prey on other "gun guys", yet I believe that's exactly what's happening here.

[JenniferG]

You're better off just getting your own lawyer. I wouldn't give these guys a penny. I've heard the radio ads for a couple of these outfits and it just seems that you're spending money that doesn't need to be spent. Imagine you do get into a self defense shoot and now you're fighting off an aggressive leftist DA, do you also need to be wrangling with a so called insurance company too. Just go talk to a lawyer upfront if you're that concerned about being prosecuted for defending yourself.

[Bang]

Over the years, I have observed that there are many "services" charging fees to do things that anyone can do for themselves for free or close to it. As well-pointed out by Orlov556, the organization securing a need remains legal by carefully structuring enticements with cherry-picked wording.

A better idea might be to have such an intriguing case that a large gun org steps in to further its cred.