High Standard feeding issue

[Andre Brincat]

Hello,

I am hoping I picked the right forum to get some 'long distance' help.


I recently bought a Supermatic Citation Model 104.. Unfortunately I have zero information of its previous ownership or origins as I bought it from a dealer.

I took it down to the range for the first time this weekend and although it is a very accurate shot, the gun has a problem with reloading.

I'll try to describe the problem.. after each shot fired, the spent cartridge is extracted properly, the next round is picked from the magazine ok, and enters the chamber, but then it stops there, halfway in (as in photo 1). Its as if the receiver doesn't have enough strength to push the round all the way in. (recoil spring??)


As a result (I think) when the round doesn't get pushed in far enough, the bullet is scraped by the bottom lip of the chamber (photo 2).

Pushing the slide all the way forward until the breech is closed allows me to fire the next shot however the problem repeats itself.

The rounds fired were a brand new box of Fiocchi Maxac .22 and out of the 100 rounds fired only 4 reloaded automatically. I also tried some other makes of ammo but they didn't cycle either. Some of my rounds worked fine in other firearms too.

So that's the problem, I thought i'd write to you before taking the gun in to some local gunsmith for some unprofessional repair.

I have checked the forums online, however advice has differed as some people blame the magazine, others the chamber and I think it's the recoil spring.. I chose to put my question here since, as Americans you have been firing .22 since time untold whereas here in Malta it is quite a recent thing (laws only passed a few years go) so I can definitely get experienced advice.

I hope you can help me as gunsmiths on this island tend to have a know it all approach and it would be a shame to turn an easy repair into a disaster due to negligence.

Thanks and regards,

Andre Brincat

from Malta, Europe

[tl_3237]

I'm gonna hazard a guess that you might have issues with the magazines feeding lips. My problem was more egregious than yours but the bullets seems to suggest that the angle of insertion for the cartridge may be too high - a symptom of opened mag lips.

see how I solved my problem:
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/536...ding-jams.html

[Brick]

Take a look at highstandard.com they have contact information available for email correspondence.

You should also look this bit of information over:

http://highstandard.com/index.php/services#magazine

[ronbo1012]

I have several High Standards and have had similar problems. As was stated earlier follow the above link and carefully make adjustments. It is not hard, and a vernier caliper helps. Be careful as non-original mags are not as resilient as the old ones. I can't remember where I found it, but there is a schematic to make a tool to adjust the lips on line. It works well.
There is very little mass to the slide so make sure it is clean and lubed well. I use a synthetic gun oil with a very small amount of synthetic grease mixed in. Works well for me.
Enjoy your pistol, they are very nice and fun to shoot.

[Pilot321]

I'm gonna hazard a guess that you might have issues with the magazines feeding lips. My problem was more egregious than yours but the bullets seems to suggest that the angle of insertion for the cartridge may be too high - a symptom of opened mag lips.

see how I solved my problem:
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/536...ding-jams.html

This is likely the problem, and that is very good info. I had a Victor that needed to have the magazine feeding lips adjusted.

[Andre Brincat]

Thanks for your interest guys.

I have emailed the current high standard company but oddly enough I haven't received any reply yet.

modifying the magazine sounds like a plausible idea however my original magazine has the following dimensions:

Rear of front lips: .232
*
Front of rear lips:* .181

This is close enough to what they should be, in my opinion.

Doesn't anybody think the prioblem is in the recoil spring?

[imashooter2]

If the cartridges are starting into the chamber, it isn't the magazine. I had the same issue on a 1953 vintage Supermatic and replacing the operating spring (recoil spring) fixed my problem. Instructions are here:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbarta/hsrecoil.pdf

Build a serious trap for the spring plug. A good sock with a towel over top of that to catch it should be belt and suspenders. I spent a lot of time searching the basement for my plug after it shot right through the heavy plastic bag I decided should do the job.

[tl_3237]

Thanks for your interest guys.

I have emailed the current high standard company but oddly enough I haven't received any reply yet.

modifying the magazine sounds like a plausible idea however my original magazine has the following dimensions:

Rear of front lips: .232
*
Front of rear lips:* .181

This is close enough to what they should be, in my opinion.

Doesn't anybody think the prioblem is in the recoil spring?

Could be but I sincerely doubt it.

Your pictures show a bullet gouge which is probably caused by the rear edge of the chamber snagging a high bullet. This bullet, having a good purchase on the breech face, forms a strong brace that prevents the slide from closing. If your cartridges were being released from the mag properly there should be no significant deformation along the bullet body save possibly a scuff mark on the conical portion where the bullet deflects off the top of the chamber's inside while being pushed forward by the slide.

Even if you change the spring and somehow get the slide to close, your bullets are somewhat deformed when fired which could degrade performance.

As to your measurements see my post below from the thread I linked:

Hey guys -Thanks for all the help so far. PAFOA is like a 'Band of Brothers'.

Progress report: I checked out the measurements on the front and rear lips and got .230 and .185 late last night. Then I tried putting one round in mag and SLOWLY cycling the action. As the rim neared the end of the rear lips the bullet flipped up! Now I know that slow manual cycle is not the same effect as recoil cycle but here's what made it interesting - I tried a small piece of electrical tap (.005") on the inside of the left front lip and repeated the SLOW cycle.

Viola. The round went up the feed ramp and angled almost driectly into the center of the chamber . This leads me to believe that the front lips need a little narrowing. I moved them together about .004 and would like to collapse them even a little more. Although the tape was .005, I'm sure that when I put it on the lip and folded it around, it was thicker that that at the folds.

I'll let you know when I get a chance to test it under actual conditions but I'm hopeful. If not then maybe I'll try to close the rear lips a tad.

<snip>

[saleen322]

Hello,

I am hoping I picked the right forum to get some 'long distance' help.


I recently bought a Supermatic Citation Model 104.. Unfortunately I have zero information of its previous ownership or origins as I bought it from a dealer.

I took it down to the range for the first time this weekend and although it is a very accurate shot, the gun has a problem with reloading.

I'll try to describe the problem.. after each shot fired, the spent cartridge is extracted properly, the next round is picked from the magazine ok, and enters the chamber, but then it stops there, halfway in (as in photo 1). Its as if the receiver doesn't have enough strength to push the round all the way in. (recoil spring??)


As a result (I think) when the round doesn't get pushed in far enough, the bullet is scraped by the bottom lip of the chamber (photo 2).

Pushing the slide all the way forward until the breech is closed allows me to fire the next shot however the problem repeats itself.

The rounds fired were a brand new box of Fiocchi Maxac .22 and out of the 100 rounds fired only 4 reloaded automatically. I also tried some other makes of ammo but they didn't cycle either. Some of my rounds worked fine in other firearms too.

So that's the problem, I thought i'd write to you before taking the gun in to some local gunsmith for some unprofessional repair.

I have checked the forums online, however advice has differed as some people blame the magazine, others the chamber and I think it's the recoil spring.. I chose to put my question here since, as Americans you have been firing .22 since time untold whereas here in Malta it is quite a recent thing (laws only passed a few years go) so I can definitely get experienced advice.

I hope you can help me as gunsmiths on this island tend to have a know it all approach and it would be a shame to turn an easy repair into a disaster due to negligence.

Thanks and regards,

Andre Brincat

from Malta, Europe

Hey Andre,
I have been a bit of a High Standard junkie for quite some time. The problem you describe is not too uncommon. If it was mine, here is how I would most likely proceed:

1. Take the barrel off by pushing in the large button. This is just me but after I make certain the pistol is empty and clear, I insert a magazine that I am also sure is empty. The reason being if the slide stop slips and the slide goes forward when the barrel is not aligned, the extractor almost always smacks the barrel and breaks. The empty magazine will keep pressure on the slide stop to help prevent this.
2. With the barrel off, see if a round will drop into the chamber just using gravity. If it does, great; if not, look around the breach of the barrel to see if the pistol was dry fired and the firing pin peened the metal on the edge of the chamber. If it is, let us know and I can tell you a couple of ways to easily fix it. If the breach looks okay but the round still does not drop in, give the chamber a good cleaning as that may hold it up.
3. Early High Standards are subject to frame cracking if they are not handled properly. Current High Standards are less prone to this as they now use stainless frames. The recoil spring (High Standard calls it a driving spring) needs to be replaced when it starts losing tension. The stock spring is a straight 5.5 lbs but I prefer a 6 lb progressive wound spring that Wolff makes. Either is fine but the spring must be to spec to protect the frame. Also only use standard velocity ammo in the pistol. High velocity will again stress the frame and not deliver the accuracy the pistol is capable of.

If these things don't fix it, let us know. Hope this helps and here as some of my High Standards. Properly cared for, they will last many lifetimes.

[Brick]

Gee Saleen don't you have one of the old "slant grip" models? Those all look like military grip.

Just kidding, that's a great collection!