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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:01 PM
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Unhappy High Standard (Hamden, CT) Feeding Jams

My old faithful High Standard Supermatic Citation with original magazine, which I bought in the mid-60s, has been experiencing feeding jams and Iíve run out of ideas as to the fix. This is my main target pistol and Iíve fired literally 10s of thousands of rounds (exclusively Remington Standard Velocity/Target) with never a problem.

Of late I am experiencing a feed jam usually on the 2nd round from the mag initially loaded with 5. The 1st round, which is loaded via manual cycle, and the last round never have a problem. The 3rd and/or the 4th rounds sometime jam but the vast majority of problems are on the 2nd.

Iíve replaced the recoil spring. I ordered one from Numrich Arms that was for High Standards. It turned out to be the same twist rate but 1" too long so I had to cut it down.

Iíve installed a new (Wolff 105%) magazine spring. Iíve cleaned and buffed the feed ramp.

I cannot see any anomaly with the magazine - it firmly locks into the well and there is no play at the top of the magazine while locked in the well. Iíve noticed that the mag has two sets of tangs or fingers.(see empty mag pic - the rear set holds the case rim as the slide pushes the round forward while the front set appear to restrict lateral movement but do not contact or otherwise retard the round as it rises up the feed ramp (should it?).

The cause of the jams appears to be that rounds are hanging up or almost hanging up on the top edge of the breech face/chamber interface. This would indicate that the rounds are too being introduced into the chamber in a high condition - sometimes sufficiently high to prevent deflection into the chamber when being rammed by the slide. Even the rounds that do load show some shaving damage. I cannot discern any imperfection in the area of round nose contact - I never dry fire without a casing so thereís no indent from the firing pin on the breech face to cause a burr situation.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


JAM


Other Pics --------------


Empty Mag in Well

Charged Mag in Well


Jammed rounds (side view)

Jammed round (left, side view) and two rounds (right, top view) that loaded but I extracted for examination. Notice shaving where they deflected off top of breech face into chamber
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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: High Standard (Hamden, CT) Feeding Jams

Does this happen with just the one mag? It could be that the lips on the mag may have become distorted.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: High Standard (Hamden, CT) Feeding Jams

Quote:
Originally Posted by normanvin View Post
Does this happen with just the one mag? It could be that the lips on the mag may have become distorted.
THis is the only mag I have (it fed all those 10s of thousands of rounds).

Are you referring to the front set or back set? I was wondering if the front set should be narrowed to slightly grab the shell as it rises up the feed ramp giving a little upwards friction.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: High Standard (Hamden, CT) Feeding Jams

From http://www.highstandard.com/

IMPORTANT INFORMATION!



Congratulations on your purchase of a new High Standard pistol or replacement magazine.



The High Standard magazine that is manufactured today is essentially the same in dimension and specification as all High Standard magazines that have ever been produced. The only basic changes that have been incorporated in todays magazine simply provide for changes that have occurred in .22 Long Rifle Target Ammunition.



Several things should be noted with new High Standard magazines:

1. Older frames in the Model 106, Model 107, ML Series, and SH Series could have a radius in the top rear of the magazine slot. The magazines produced today could stop 1/4 in. short of locking into these frames due to this radius. To correct this, the radius must be removed from the frame by machining.

2. All magazines are gauged to be under .360 wide. However, if you receive a magazine that is wider than .360., you can easily correct this with the use of a dial caliper and a pair of pliers or vise grips.

3. Magazine feeding is very sensitive to the particular ammunition that is being used. Due to the wide variance in ammunition specifications, the width of the magazines feed lips must be adjusted for the particular target ammunition to be used to obtain maximum reliability. The basic dimensions should be .230 wide for the rear of the front lips and .185 wide for the front of the rear lips. The front and rear lips should also be kept parallel.

4. Magazines should always be kept clean and well oiled.



NOTE: 1. The .230 dimension is fairly constant for all ammunition. The .185 dimension should be increased if the bullets are feeding too low, and it should be decreased if the bullets are feeding too high. This adjustment can be accomplished with tools like needle nose pliers. You can also make your own tool with a piece of 1/4 in.1/2 in. flat stock by sawing a slot in the end. 2. Due to the overall length of some 22LR match ammunition, it will be impossible to get it to feed ten (10) rounds properly.



CAUTION: 1. The magazine lips are heat-treated and will break if they are bent too much at one time. 2. Magazine feed lips may drag on slide feed rail if decreased in width too much.



If you have any problems or concerns about adjusting your magazine, please seek the assistance of a qualified gunsmith in your area.



GOOD SHOOTING!



Copyright © High Standard Manufacturing Company October 1996, 2001

If the problem isn't the magazine, the only other thing that has ever given me a problem has been a weak spring on the slide release. A weak spring allows the slide release to flop around a bit causing misfeeds. Just replace the spring with a new one, see Parts on the High Standard site.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: High Standard (Hamden, CT) Feeding Jams

I am no expert but it seems the front may need tweaked. It may have been bumped in your range bag or something.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: High Standard (Hamden, CT) Feeding Jams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick View Post
From http://www.highstandard.com/

IMPORTANT INFORMATION!



Congratulations on your purchase of a new High Standard pistol or replacement magazine.



The High Standard magazine that is manufactured today is essentially the same in dimension and specification as all High Standard magazines that have ever been produced. The only basic changes that have been incorporated in todays magazine simply provide for changes that have occurred in .22 Long Rifle Target Ammunition.



Several things should be noted with new High Standard magazines:

1. Older frames in the Model 106, Model 107, ML Series, and SH Series could have a radius in the top rear of the magazine slot. The magazines produced today could stop 1/4 in. short of locking into these frames due to this radius. To correct this, the radius must be removed from the frame by machining.

2. All magazines are gauged to be under .360 wide. However, if you receive a magazine that is wider than .360., you can easily correct this with the use of a dial caliper and a pair of pliers or vise grips.

3. Magazine feeding is very sensitive to the particular ammunition that is being used. Due to the wide variance in ammunition specifications, the width of the magazines feed lips must be adjusted for the particular target ammunition to be used to obtain maximum reliability. The basic dimensions should be .230 wide for the rear of the front lips and .185 wide for the front of the rear lips. The front and rear lips should also be kept parallel.

4. Magazines should always be kept clean and well oiled.



NOTE: 1. The .230 dimension is fairly constant for all ammunition. The .185 dimension should be increased if the bullets are feeding too low, and it should be decreased if the bullets are feeding too high. This adjustment can be accomplished with tools like needle nose pliers. You can also make your own tool with a piece of 1/4 in.1/2 in. flat stock by sawing a slot in the end. 2. Due to the overall length of some 22LR match ammunition, it will be impossible to get it to feed ten (10) rounds properly.



CAUTION: 1. The magazine lips are heat-treated and will break if they are bent too much at one time. 2. Magazine feed lips may drag on slide feed rail if decreased in width too much.



If you have any problems or concerns about adjusting your magazine, please seek the assistance of a qualified gunsmith in your area.



GOOD SHOOTING!



Copyright © High Standard Manufacturing Company October 1996, 2001

If the problem isn't the magazine, the only other thing that has ever given me a problem has been a weak spring on the slide release. A weak spring allows the slide release to flop around a bit causing misfeeds. Just replace the spring with a new one, see Parts on the High Standard site.

Nice find. I did not know about this site. I have a High Standard HD Military.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: High Standard (Hamden, CT) Feeding Jams

Quote:
Originally Posted by normanvin View Post
Nice find. I did not know about this site. I have a High Standard HD Military.
Thanks Brick and Normanvin.

I have a model 106 Military.

That note under 1. " To correct this, the radius must be removed from the frame by machining." is what really concerned me and why I've been trying to 'bebuild' the original mag. This gun is my 'baby' for 45 years and I'm not about to take machine tools to it.

Any idea what the 'radius' looks like and where located?

I've also heard some not so good comments about Triple K Mags. I want to exhaust all possibilities on the original mag first.

I'll have to check out the lip dimensions - looks like that may be the problem.

Brick: If I can't get the mag fix then I'll remove the slide release lever/spring assembly and see if the symptoms disappear - never thought to look there but I'll try anything.

Thanks again.

Last edited by tl_3237; March 27th, 2009 at 06:45 PM.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: High Standard (Hamden, CT) Feeding Jams

Hey tl!

I would not worry about the radius too much since these instructions are really geared toward fitting NEW magazines. But the dimensions they give for the front (.230") and rear (.185") lips seemed most likely to be where adjustment is needed.

Although I believe I would dismount the slide releas and try the gun without it first instead of messing with the magazine since it has been working fine for 40 or so years!

I have three magazines for my Tournament Military, and I just checked them with my dial caliper. They run .240"-.250" on the front and .175" to .182" on the rear. I have no feeding problems with any of them. Wish I could give you more help!
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Old March 28th, 2009, 12:57 AM
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Smile Re: High Standard (Hamden, CT) Feeding Jams

I have a Hi Standard Trophy that has many rounds through it and I did encounter some feeding problems through the years. Most were due to ammo. my Trophy loves Federal Champions. From what I read you tried all the fixes and the previous posters have good ideas and its probably the magazine lips that may have worn or somehow got bumped. Its very difficult to adjust them with normal tools. If you go to www.rimfirecentral.com they have a Hi Std forum. research: "making a tool to adjust the mags" its made with just a few parts and it makes your job easy. You can also ask the members and they will steer you to the post. I am sorry but I can't locate the source now.
Another fix that worked for me when the bullet hung up such as your pic I used a 3/8 inch drift punch inserted into the breech gave it one or two taps and I was good to go for another few years. Another satisfied Hamden Hi Std. owner

Last edited by inkie; March 28th, 2009 at 01:02 AM.
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Old March 28th, 2009, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: High Standard (Hamden, CT) Feeding Jams

Hey guys -Thanks for all the help so far. PAFOA is like a 'Band of Brothers'.

Progress report: I checked out the measurements on the front and rear lips and got .230 and .185 late last night. Then I tried putting one round in mag and SLOWLY cycling the action. As the rim neared the end of the rear lips the bullet flipped up! Now I know that slow manual cycle is not the same effect as recoil cycle but here's what made it interesting - I tried a small piece of electrical tap (.005") on the inside of the left front lip and repeated the SLOW cycle.

Viola. The round went up the feed ramp and angled almost driectly into the center of the chamber . This leads me to believe that the front lips need a little narrowing. I moved them together about .004 and would like to collapse them even a little more. Although the tape was .005, I'm sure that when I put it on the lip and folded it around, it was thicker that that at the folds.

I'll let you know when I get a chance to test it under actual conditions but I'm hopeful. If not then maybe I'll try to close the rear lips a tad.

Thanks for the link Inkie - I'll check it out.

IMHO those Hamden High Standards were and still are the best. I also have an Olympic Citation 10.5" barrel in .22 Short from the early 60's that I occassionally take out. It too has 10s of thousands of rounds through it and the only part I had to replace was the slide many decades ago - wore down at the slide catch lever and it started to close when then mag was empty.
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