Armed Robbery close by at Local Fast Food

[Nucking Futs]

On my way to work today I heard on the news there was an armed robbery with a gun attempt at a local fast food joint my family has frequented in the past. The workers safely escaped by running through the back door of the establishment once the man started demanding money with the gun. I am guessing there was no one eating in at the time.

It got me thinking, what would I have done? Would we as permitted carriers be justified in drawing and fireing on said BG? What would you have done? Maybe draw and try to have him drop the gun or maybe just fire? In this scenario, I am thinking once the workers had run out the backdoor, the BG may have turned and started demanding money from folks in the resturant. Would you even have given him that chance? I am thinking as soon as I saw the man with the gun pointing it at the workers demanding money, that would be all I would need to fire, especially if his back is to me or there was good cover between me and him, especially once the workers fled and there was no chance of hitting anyone else.

Thoughts?

[flyingjunkie]

While I am not a lawyer, I can't help but feel that shooting him would be justified in that the law states that you can use deadly force in defense of another where you feel such force would be needed to defend yourself.

From Castle Doctrine:

§ 506. Use of force for the protection of other persons.

(a) General rule.--The use of force upon or toward the
person of another is justifiable to protect a third person when:

(1) the actor would be justified under section 505 [of
this title] (relating to use of force in self-protection) in
using such force to protect himself against the injury he
believes to be threatened to the person whom he seeks to protect;

(2) under the circumstances as the actor believes them
to be, the person whom he seeks to protect would be justified
in using such protective force; and

(3) the actor believes that his intervention is necessary for the
protection of such other person.

That being said, I would defend myself and persons around me as far as necessary. I think giving the BG a chance to surrender is giving him the opportunity to either take a hostage or have a knee-jerk reaction of just pulling the trigger. Either way, it ends bad if I don't defend the people around me. As the Declaration of Independence states, in layman's terms, those who have the ability to defend against injustices, have the responsibility to defend against said injustices.

[yeager484]

I don't know the law exactly but I believe if you witness someone who's life is in danger, you can act as if your own life is in danger. In this example, if I'm a patron and I observe the guy come in draw a gun and demand money I believe I'd be legally permitted to use deadly force against the threat.

One must be careful with this, another example: you walk down the street and see a guy holding two people on the ground at gunpoint and you use deadly force on him...only to find out that the two people on the ground were robbing the guy with the gun who was able to turn the tables on the BGs, now you essentially acted out of order and killed a good guy.

IANAL.

[Nucking Futs]

Clarification from GL would be great...

[Shisno]

IANAL

If you have a clean shot with nobody behind the target, take it. The other people are being threatened with deadly force and it would be reasonable to expect the BG to turn on you when the employees escape.

[TaePo]

Devil's advocate:

What if all the employees have already left and the robber has the store to himself?

I would only engage if absolutely necessary to save someone or myself. If I have the drop by being behind them...and others are threatened, no warning other than the sound of my firearm going off. I hope to get a good hit on the first shot and not need follow-ups.

Too many think about warning the perp which is why I mention it. If the employees are safe, I would hide until the robber left or engage if I thought they spotted me.

IANAL.

[Captain4]

Be prepared to defend yourself. Isn't it a problem if you shoot the BG from behind?

[Shisno]

Be prepared to defend yourself. Isn't it a problem if you shoot the BG from behind?

Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. It depends on the situation. It is possible for a reasonable person to be in fear for his life, serious bodily injury, rape, or kidnapping even if the bad guy is not facing you at the moment. There is a difference between fleeing, and not facing you.

In this case (IANAL) it would be OK. I think a reasonable person could be fearful that Tue BG would turn his attention to me after the employees left unless the BG started heading towards the door.

[The Unknown 1087]

If the place says no guns I would think you would not fall under castle doctrine.

It states if you have a legal right to be at such place you are allowed to use force. If you are some place that openly says no guns I would think that you don't have a legal right

Not sure if that's correct though.

[BestDefense=StrongOffense]

I'm not on this planet to play "hero". If the employees bailed, and i can escape, I'm gone. I'll do what is necessary to make sure I have a clear exit. Then MAYBE corral the employees in a safe location behind some cover away from the store.