PA Homeowner, but NJ Resident, LTCF and transport

[jashev]

Is your Pa house occupied by you as a vacation/recreation home while in Pa? Do you have exclusive use of the house or do you rent it out when you're not there?

Do you have a bona fide business in Pa? Is it co-located with the Pa house or elsewhere in Pa?

My PA house is never rented. It's a year round residence on 10 acres on a private road. My family and I live there about half time. My company has offices in NJ and in Malvern, PA (office and warehouse) no where near my house.

It would seem that the following federal statute would have precedence. I am assuming that PA allows me to keep my weapon legally at my Wrightsville house. This stuff can drive you to drink!

§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

[headcase]

My PA house is never rented. It's a year round residence on 10 acres on a private road. My family and I live there about half time. My company has offices in NJ and in Malvern, PA (office and warehouse) no where near my house.

It would seem that the following federal statute would have precedence. I am assuming that PA allows me to keep my weapon legally at my Wrightsville house. This stuff can drive you to drink!

§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

If you read 926A a bit closer, you will note it applies when you can legally possess AND CARRY a firearm where you start and where you end. If you can not legally CARRY in N.J., it does not apply.

[PA-Joe]

In NJ you can legally carry in your home so transporting between residence is not an issue.

[tl_3237]

If you read 926A a bit closer, you will note it applies when you can legally possess AND CARRY a firearm where you start and where you end. If you can not legally CARRY in N.J., it does not apply.

Agree.

In NJ you can legally carry in your home so transporting between residence is not an issue.

That assertion is unsupportable at the present time.

Though there is no definitive on-point case law we do have several state (NY) and Federal adjudications that intimate that FOPA transport only applies to intervening states and not the states of origin and destination. Furthermore the definition of 'place' and 'carry' in 18 USC 926A is lacking but I am convinced and have posted citations that show that 'carry' does not mean the colloquial OC/CC as much as it implies transport. In the OP's scenario he cannot transport his firearm off his premises in the state of origin.

More specifically, as an example for FOPA the US Court of Appeals, Third Circuit (which includes Pa and NJ) said in Revell v. Port Authority (2010):

In essence, § 926A allows a person to
transport a firearm and ammunition from one state through a
second state to a third state, without regard to the second state’s
gun laws, provided that the traveler is licensed to carry a firearm
in both the state of origin and the state of destination and that

the firearm is not readily accessible during the transportation.

That sure sounds like a strong hint that FOPA only applies to INTERVENING states.

This issue has been debated in many threads like:
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...yesterday.html

You might want to check them out before further opining.

[tl_3237]

My PA house is never rented. It's a year round residence on 10 acres on a private road. My family and I live there about half time. My company has offices in NJ and in Malvern, PA (office and warehouse) no where near my house.

It would seem that the following federal statute would have precedence. I am assuming that PA allows me to keep my weapon legally at my Wrightsville house. This stuff can drive you to drink!

§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

<snip>

Regarding FOPA transport (926A) suggest you review my previous post and the linked thread.

Its still unclear whether you have an ownership interest in 'My company' or you ar an employee/independent contractor of it.

As to whether NJ allows transport between residence and business - yes but you must have a proprietary interest and a fixed place:

NJS 2C:39-6e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

So if you were travelling directly from home to your business you can transport in NJ in the manner prescribed in subsection g.

g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Once you get to your Pa business you can keep the firearm there but there is a slightly gray area as to whether you can transport between a Pa business and a residence. Consider the exemption:

18 Pa CSA 6106(b)(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, ...

Though it would seem that the intent should allow for business/residence transport, a strict interpretation do not so indicate - thus the grayness.

So, even though you might be OK in NJ (NJ residence to Pa business and return), surprisingly there may be an issue once you get to Pa if going to your business. You would be good to go in Pa if you were going to your Pa house but then you lose the NJ (business/residence) exemption on which you relied (there is no NJ residence/residence exemption except while moving).

------------------------------------

Since you have exclusive use of your PA home, have you considered buying a firearm in Pa and keeping it at your Pa home instead of transporting to/from NJ ???

While you are actually occupying your Pa home you are considered a Pa resident for Federal firearm purchase purposes:

27 CFR § 478.11 State of residence. The State in which
an individual resides. An individual resides
in a State if he or she is present
in a State with the intention of making
a home in that State. If an individual
is on active duty as a member of
the Armed Forces, the individual’s
State of residence is the State in which
his or her permanent duty station is located.
An alien who is legally in the
United States shall be considered to be
a resident of a State only if the alien is
residing in the State and has resided in
the State for a period of at least 90
days prior to the date of sale or delivery
of a firearm. The following are examples
that illustrate this definition:
Example 1. A maintains a home in State X.
A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing,
business, or other type of trip. A does not become
a resident of State Y by reason of such
trip.
Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains
a home in State X and a home in State
Y. A resides in State X except for weekends
or the summer months of the year and in
State Y for the weekends or the summer
months of the year. During the time that A
actually resides in State X, A is a resident of
State X, and during the time that A actually
resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Might have to find a friendly Pa FFL that knows about this dual-residency allowance but it is legal. Also, if you buy a firearm in PA, don't take it back to NJ unless you are permanently moving back to NJ or risk a possible Federal violation.

[jashev]

Regarding FOPA transport (926A) suggest you review my previous post and the linked thread.

Its still unclear whether you have an ownership interest in 'My company' or you ar an employee/independent contractor of it.

As to whether NJ allows transport between residence and business - yes but you must have a proprietary interest and a fixed place:



So if you were travelling directly from home to your business you can transport in NJ in the manner prescribed in subsection g.




Once you get to your Pa business you can keep the firearm there but there is a slightly gray area as to whether you can transport between a Pa business and a residence. Consider the exemption:



Though it would seem that the intent should allow for business/residence transport, a strict interpretation do not so indicate - thus the grayness.

So, even though you might be OK in NJ (NJ residence to Pa business and return), surprisingly there may be an issue once you get to Pa if going to your business. You would be good to go in Pa if you were going to your Pa house but then you lose the NJ (business/residence) exemption on which you relied (there is no NJ residence/residence exemption except while moving).

------------------------------------

Since you have exclusive use of your PA home, have you considered buying a firearm in Pa and keeping it at your Pa home instead of transporting to/from NJ ???

While you are actually occupying your Pa home you are considered a Pa resident for Federal firearm purchase purposes:



Might have to find a friendly Pa FFL that knows about this dual-residency allowance but it is legal. Also, if you buy a firearm in PA, don't take it back to NJ unless you are permanently moving back to NJ or risk a possible Federal violation.

I want to thank all of you for your responses. You guys are great. I am the CEO of the company and have a substantial ownership interest, so it is considered "my" business. I wasn't aware that I could purchase a gun in PA without being a full time resident.

As I understand the responses, if I do that, I would have the same privileges as I currently have in NJ (transport from residence to business or target range, locked in trunk and unloaded). I may do that for now.

Is the general opinion that the dual residency definition would still not permit me to get a carry permit in PA?

I just downloaded the Florida carry permit application and it seems pretty straightforward (I also have a place in FL). As I understand that, the Florida carry permit would be accepted in PA. That may be the easiest answer to my issues. Went to my local range today to get the NRA Class Certification for the FL permit.

All I can say is what a mess this stuff is. The criminals have it much easier since they just don't care.

[Greywolf]

In NJ, as I understand it, I am allowed to transport my weapon between my home and business or from either of those locations to a practice range.

Be careful with this one. If NJ statute follows Federal law, your "place of business" must be a business that you OWN and operate. It is not a synonym for "place of work" or "place of employment." If you are a full-time mayor and work at an office in city (or town) hall, you do not HAVE a "place of business."

[oblivionboyj]

Be careful with this one. If NJ statute follows Federal law, your "place of business" must be a business that you OWN and operate. It is not a synonym for "place of work" or "place of employment." If you are a full-time mayor and work at an office in city (or town) hall, you do not HAVE a "place of business."

Read the entire thread...
He OWNS and operates a private business in PA, as well as having a residence here.

It would appear that mayor is only one of the titles he holds (along with bossman, and havin' allot of houses guy- LOL).

[Greywolf]

That assertion is unsupportable at the present time.

Though there is no definitive on-point case law we do have several state (NY) and Federal adjudications that intimate that FOPA transport only applies to intervening states and not the states of origin and destination. Furthermore the definition of 'place' and 'carry' in 18 USC 926A is lacking but I am convinced and have posted citations that show that 'carry' does not mean the colloquial OC/CC as much as it implies transport. In the OP's scenario he cannot transport his firearm off his premises in the state of origin.

More specifically, as an example for FOPA the US Court of Appeals, Third Circuit (which includes Pa and NJ) said in Revell v. Port Authority (2010):



That sure sounds like a strong hint that FOPA only applies to INTERVENING states.

Revell is a very poor case to cite, because he was arrested in the intervening state, which is the state you are saying is the only one the FOPA would apply to.

The FOPA was written and enacted to allow for interstate transportation of firearms. What good is a law that allows you to transport in any states between where you start and where you finish, but not in the states at either end of the trip?

The FOPA says what it says. If there is case law that says it does NOT apply to the starting or destination state, please provide a citation. I don't think such rulings exist.

[Greywolf]

Read the entire thread...
He OWNS and operates a private business in PA, as well as having a residence here.

It would appear that mayor is only one of the titles he holds (along with bossman, and havin' allot of houses guy- LOL).

I read the thread, thank you. I read that he is the mayor of his town in NJ. Irrespective of his ownership interest in a business, if he spends all his time being mayor and doesn't take an active role in running the business, I would not consider it certain that the company qualifies as his "place of business" under the statute, because that ain't where he works. I own a few shares of AT&T stock, but I don't work there and nobody would claim that it's my "place of business."