Help me interpret city code on firearms

[Dan Frontier]

My wife and I frequently go for walks about town and I as a practice of habit carry my concealed purchased pistol (Ruger LC9) (I do have my PA LTCF)

We were walking through a park that we often walk through and a minute into the park my wife says "that sign back there said firearms are prohibited in the park". I didn't see the sign but we continued on our way across the park without incident. It was bothering me enough that today when we went out I decided to leave my gun at home until I could research further. Today I confirmed that the sign reads:


"welcome to your city park. Park hours are dawn to dusk. Pursuant to City Code Chapter 210-2 Park Regulations Prohibit:
- dogs not on leash
- alcholic beverages and drugs
- firearms, archery, metal detectors " and so on...

My first thought was, I feel like if I have my LTCF I should be able to carry in a public park. But I went home and looked up the city code chapter 210-2. The full code reads:

"Within the limits of any park, no person shall:

A. Permit any dog or other animal except wildlife to run at large.
B. Permit any dog or other animal to defecate unless the owner, custodian or keeper of such dog or other animal immediately cleans up and removes the defecation and disposes of the same in a sanitary manner.
C. Hunt for, shoot at, chase, catch or intentionally injure or kill or attempt to shoot at, chase, catch or intentionally injure or kill, with or without dogs, any bird or animal.
D. Fish at any time between sundown and sunrise or at any place, except in the Conestoga River, without a special permit.
E. Use a boat at any place not designated as a boating area, provided that this shall not apply to employees of the City while engaged in the performance of their duties.
F. Swim, wade or bathe at any place except in a public swimming or wading pool.
G. Engage in any unlawful gaming or throwing stones or missiles.
H. Discharge firearms, bows and arrows, air or spring rifles or slings.

[Amended 11-25-2008 by Ord. No. 14-2008]"

So it appears as if I'm legal to carry my concealed weapon in the park, they just don't allow you to shoot for target practice. Would you agree with me?

Thanks for your input. I just want to be sure I'm obeying the laws while excersizing my gun rights.

[streaker69]

It would seem their sign and the actual ordinance is two different things. Chances are, in 2008 someone challenged them on the ordinance which banned firearms from parks. They changed the ordinance, but didn't pay for a new sign. They probably should be doing that.

[CenterTree]

H. Discharge firearms, bows and arrows, air or spring rifles or slings.

They are telling you that you can carry the gun, but you just can't DISCHARGE it. SO that means when you get assaulted, you will have to club the criminal on the head with your LC9.
----------------
Seriously though, this sounds like a CLASSIC preemptive violation on the part of the park if they were disallowing firearms all together. IMHO.

[CenterTree]

Disharge CAN be regulated.

I personally would not subject myself to the confines of an ordinance if I had to use (discharge) my weapon in a self-defense situation.

I suppose discharge as would pertain to target shooting certainly makes sense.

[TaePo]

Here is what is called the state pre-emption law:

18 Pa.C.S. § 6120: Limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition
(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

It was edited for brevity. I edited out the part about municipalities being able to sue firearm manufacturers and ammo producers or not and under what circumstances.

There are several threads regarding preemption. You can do a search. One of the most recent is the thread on state college where criminal prosecution was referenced if officials did not repeal and change their signs.

ETA= State College Thread Link

[richrock]

I'd guess either they're hoping to imply firearms are illegal to discourage people from carrying and also dance around the preemption laws, or they have just been too lazy/cheap/stubborn to have the sign replaced since 2008's new laws passed. I say carry all you want.

[Dan Frontier]

Yes, I feel very confident after actually looking up the code that I'm perfectly legal to carry there. I probably am not going to raise any fuss about the sign, our city is in serious budget shortfalls and I'm sure they are not worried about updating a sign that looks very new. As long as I know I have a leg to stand on if I'm given any issues about it by law enforcement, I'm happy.

[TaePo]

Yes, I feel very confident after actually looking up the code that I'm perfectly legal to carry there. I probably am not going to raise any fuss about the sign, our city is in serious budget shortfalls and I'm sure they are not worried about updating a sign that looks very new. As long as I know I have a leg to stand on if I'm given any issues about it by law enforcement, I'm happy.

Can't they paint it out in the short term? Offer to do it for them and include the paint!

[BimmerJon]

Yes, I feel very confident after actually looking up the code that I'm perfectly legal to carry there. I probably am not going to raise any fuss about the sign, our city is in serious budget shortfalls and I'm sure they are not worried about updating a sign that looks very new. As long as I know I have a leg to stand on if I'm given any issues about it by law enforcement, I'm happy.

Then they probably couldn't afford to defend and lose a lawsuit from someone illegally arrested for a law that is in violation of state law

[Curmudgeon]

Can't they paint it out in the short term? Offer to do it for them and include the paint, and OPEN CARRY while you do it!

Fixed it for you.