Philthydelphia's "City of the First Class" status; isn't this, itself....

[Yentl Marmelstein]

...a pre-emption violation?

This legislation that declares "cities of the first class" to be exempt from Open Carry laws, seems to be in violation.

Can anybody explain to me how it is not?

Thanks.

[dgg9]

The legislation in question IS state-level, so pre-emption doesn't apply.

I half-suspect you're being tongue in cheek here....

[mrjam2jab]

The legislation in question IS state-level, so pre-emption doesn't apply.

I half-suspect you're being tongue in cheek here....

maybe not....I've often said...well maybe not often here, but at least once...that I'm convinced it is that statute that gives Philly its "do what we want" attitude when it comes to PA UFA.

[knight0334]

State law determines the class of city/borough/county/etc. Since PA's own law determines that Philadelphia is a City of the First Class, Philly itself then falls under 6108, and isn't a preemption violation because it was state law that decreed such.

[Yentl Marmelstein]

I should clarify.

What is it that makes a "City of the First Class" allow itself to draft firearms legislation that is, in my view anyway, pre-emptive?

Or did the State Legislature legislate that Cities of the First Class can do WTF they want to regarding firearms law?

What is it it that allows a City of The First Class to require an LTCF for open carry?

I guess that's what I'm asking.

[dgg9]

I should clarify.

What is it that makes a "City of the First Class" allow itself to draft firearms legislation that is, in my view anyway, pre-emptive?

Or did the State Legislature legislate that "Cities of the First Class can do WTF they want to regarding firearms law?"

NOTHING makes a "City of the First Class" able to pass pre-emptive legislation, and indeed such legislation is routinely slapped down by Harrisburg.

What is it it that allows a City of The First Class to require an LTCF for open carry?

STATE law.

[MDJschool]

Philthydelphia's "City of the First Class" status; isn't this, itself....
...a pre-emption violation?
This legislation that declares "cities of the first class" to be exempt from Open Carry laws, seems to be in violation.
Can anybody explain to me how it is not?

I assume the state would rest on the following:

"The Legislature shall have power to classify counties, cities, boroughs, school districts, and townships according to population, and all laws passed relating to each class, and all laws passed relating to, and regulating procedure and proceedings in court with reference to, any class, shall be deemed general legislation within the meaning of this Constitution." Pa. Const. art. III, § 20.
"The General Assembly shall provide by general law for local government within the Commonwealth. Such general law shall be uniform as to all classes of local government regarding procedural matters." Pa. Const. art. IX, § 1.

18 Pa.C.S. would then be expected not to offend the following:

Certain Local and Special Laws
Section 32.

"The General Assembly shall pass no local or special law in any case which has been or can be provided for by general law and specifically the General assembly shall not pass any local or special law.
1. Regulating the affairs of counties, cities, townships, wards, boroughs, or school districts.
2. Vacating roads, town plats, streets or alleys.
3. Locating or changing county seats, erecting new counties or changing county lines.
4. Erecting new townships or boroughs, changing township lines, borough limits or school districts.
5. Remitting fines, penalties and forfeitures, or refunding moneys legally paid into the treasury.
6. Exempting property from taxation.
7. regulating labor, trade, mining or manufacturing.
8. Creating corporations, or amending, renewing or extending the charters thereof.
Nor shall the General Assembly indirectly enact any special or local law by the partial repeal of a general law; but laws repealing local or special acts may be passed." Pa. Const. art. III, § 32.

It of course seems very convenient that they've classed Philadephia into its own group for the purpose of passing unconstitutional gun control legislation.

I should clarify.
What is it that makes a "City of the First Class" allow itself to draft firearms legislation that is, in my view anyway, pre-emptive?
Or did the State Legislature legislate that Cities of the First Class can do WTF they want to regarding firearms law?
What is it it that allows a City of The First Class to require an LTCF for open carry?

18 Pa.C.S. 6108 is the state prohibition that would give any city of the first class such a prohibition. Philadelphia just happens to be the only city in that class. "No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless . . . "

Philadelphia did not enact § 6108, the PA General Assembly did. There might be an argument under 53 Pa.C.S. 2962 to be made that city and county law enforcement officers may not enforce § 6108, leaving, for example, only the PSP.

"Municipalities shall have the right and power to frame and adopt home rule charters. . . . A municipality which has a home rule charter may exercise any power or perform any function not denied by this Constitution, by its home rule charter or by the General Assembly at any time." Pa. Const. art. IX, § 2.
"As used in this article, the following words shall have the following meanings:
"Municipality" means a county, city, borough, incorporated town, township or any similar general purpose unit of government which shall hereafter be created by the General Assembly." Pa. Const. art. IX, § 14.

"A municipality which has adopted a home rule charter may exercise any powers and perform any function not denied by the Constitution of Pennsylvania, by statute or by its home rule charter. All grants of municipal power to municipalities governed by a home rule charter under this subchapter, whether in the form of specific enumeration or general terms, shall be liberally construed in favor of the municipality." 53 Pa.C.S 2961
"(c) Prohibited powers.--A municipality shall not:
(2) Exercise powers contrary to, or in limitation or enlargement of, powers granted by statutes which are applicable in every part of this Commonwealth.
(g) Regulation of firearms.--A municipality shall not enact any ordinance or take any other action dealing with the regulation of the transfer, ownership, transportation or possession of firearms." 53 Pa.C.S. 2962

[SouthPhilly]

Hehe I always found it ironic that one of the dirtier, more violent cities in all of PA is considered 'first-class'

[ViperGTS19801]

While I was at Philadelphia City Hall, a police officer brought someone's FL CCW up and checked it into evidence.

Out of curiosity, I had asked him,

"Are you guys pushing for Philadelphia to not recognize out of state permits?"

Now, either he was wise to the fact that I am knowledgable on the law and he didn't want to dig himself into a hole, or he legitimately knew the law, and hence responded,

"We all want to, but we can't."

They know that they don't get to pass firearms laws - yet they keep trying to do it anyway.

First class, my ass.

[headcase]

It could be a constitutional violation, but it is certainly not a pre-emption violation. The state made the law, not the city. And what open carry laws are referring too?