PD Run weapon serial and LCTF numbers?

[JGeezer1986]

Been listening to the police scanner.

City PD came over the scanner to run a driver license number. Shorty after i heard them run off the serial number of a weapon and the "Carry Permit number".

Dispatcher responded with persons information then responded that she didnt have access to the files for "Permits".

It it not illegal to run a serial number of a weapon like that , and to ask for validation of an LCTF??

First time I heard of this. If Local PD are doing these things illegaly, i would like to know if i have to deal with them..

Anyone shead some light on this for me?

[cavmedic]

There is nothing illegal with running the weapon through NCIC to check if stolen . There is also nothing illegal about checking to see if the person's LTCF is valid.

[Smalls]

There is nothing illegal with running the weapon through NCIC to check if stolen . There is also nothing illegal about checking to see if the person's LTCF is valid.

But but, the database...

[knight0334]

There is nothing illegal with running the weapon through NCIC to check if stolen . There is also nothing illegal about checking to see if the person's LTCF is valid.

Well.. Unless the officer has reason to believe the gun is stolen he is violating that person's 4th Amendment rights. There is no need to run serial numbers unless the gun is used in an actual crime. Do you see officers knocking kids off their Huffy's to run the serial number of their pedal bikes?

[headcase]

Well.. Unless the officer has reason to believe the gun is stolen he is violating that person's 4th Amendment rights. There is no need to run serial numbers unless the gun is used in an actual crime. Do you see officers knocking kids off their Huffy's to run the serial number of their pedal bikes?

Yeah, but pedal bikes can't kill you, so your comparison fails... Or some other silly thing the police apologists will be along with soon...

[MDJschool]

We live in dangerous times. Dangerous, not because of guns, but because of what judges can and could do to our common law.

A prosecutor will argue in court that Terry lets them take custody of the firearm, and then probably that plain sight kicks in (as they either have a supposed lawful vantage point to view the serial or can manipulate the firearm pursuant to detainment to observe it). If they have to remove grips to see the serial, then the argument isn't plain sight but officer safety or some such thing.

If we get a group of appellate judges who don't understand what's at stake here, miss the mark, or have an agenda to destroy our rights, we may very well get case law that says that an officer has or can make a lawful vantage point to obtain the serial number and from there it's just routine investigative procedure to look it up.

The truth, however, is that Terry is one of the 'jealously delineated' exceptions to the 4A, and it has been quite clear since the day that Terry was handed down that the use of the exception is circumscribed by its exigency. That means that while they might have an exceptional justification to seize the firearm under Terry, they are simply not allowed to connect the dots and use the serial they've seized to perform any further tasks (except perhaps, for example, to issue a receipt per 18 Pa.C.S. 6105(f)(4)(i)) because they why they may have a physical vantage point to view the serial, they lack a lawful vantage point by which to discover it; it would therefore be tainted where used.

It might further be suggested that 18 Pa.C.S. 6111(b)(1.1)(v) (which makes it illegal for the PSP to retain info from SP 4-113 forms) and 18 Pa.C.S. 6111.4 (which prohibits operation and use of the registry as an ownership database) means that someone along the chain through which requests or receives the firearm's serial is committing a crime, and the government can't be allowed to benefit from that. It could also be said that transmitting firearm or LTCF serials or information resulting from the request, over an airwave readily intercepted and decoded, could be a violation of 18 Pa.C.S. 6111(i).

[donm]

Well.. Unless the officer has reason to believe the gun is stolen he is violating that person's 4th Amendment rights. There is no need to run serial numbers unless the gun is used in an actual crime. Do you see officers knocking kids off their Huffy's to run the serial number of their pedal bikes?

No, but you do see them sitting by the side of the road or in a parking lot running plate numbers of cars that pass by or have been sitting for a while.

[Kramer]

But but, the database...

If they were to have such a database for that info would have to come from all of the Sheriffs across the state.

[gnbrotz]

If they were to have such a database for that info would have to come from all of the Sheriffs across the state.

Why would it? Copies of all LTCFs are filed with the PSP, and the PSP receive copies of all SP 4-113 forms that are executed. They have everything they need already.

[Kramer]

Why would it? Copies of all LTCFs are filed with the PSP, and the PSP receive copies of all SP 4-113 forms that are executed. They have everything they need already.

And where did they recieve that information from? Hmmm? anybody?