Wife got pulled over today...

[MedicCop]

Define "scope of their official duties"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_officer

Responsibilities of a police officer are varied, and may differ greatly from within one political context to another. Typical duties relate to keeping the peace, law enforcement, protection of people and property and the investigation of crimes. Officers are expected to respond to a variety of situations that may arise while they are on duty. Rules and guidelines dictate how an officer should behave within the community, and in many contexts, restrictions are placed on what the uniformed officer wears. In some countries, rules and procedures dictate that a police officer is obliged to intervene in a criminal incident, even if they are off-duty. Police officers in nearly all countries retain their lawful powers while off duty.[8]

In the majority of Western legal systems, the major role of the police is to maintain order, keeping the peace through surveillance of the public, and the subsequent reporting and apprehension of suspected violators of the law. They also function to discourage crimes through high-visibility policing, and most police forces have an investigative capability. Police have the legal authority to arrest and detain, usually granted by magistrates. Police officers also respond to emergency calls, along with routine community policing.

Police are often used as an emergency service and may provide a public safety function at large gatherings, as well as in emergencies, disasters, search and rescue situations, and road traffic collisions. To provide a prompt response in emergencies, the police often coordinate their operations with fire and emergency medical services. In some countries, individuals serve jointly as police officers as well as firefighters (creating the role of fire police). In many countries, there is a common emergency service number that allows the police, firefighters, or medical services to be summoned to an emergency. Some countries, such as the United Kingdom have outlined command procedures, for the use in major emergencies or disorder. The Gold Silver Bronze command structure is a system set up to improve communications between ground based officers and the control room, typically, Bronze Commander would be a senior officer on the ground, coordinating the efforts in the center of the emergency, Silver Commanders would be positioned in an 'Incident Control Room' erected to improve better communications at the scene, and a Gold Commander who would be in the Control Room.

Police are also responsible for reprimanding minor offenders by issuing citations which typically may result in the imposition of fines, particularly for violations of traffic law. Traffic enforcement is often and effectively accomplished by police officers on motorcycles—called motor officers, these officers refer to the motorcycles they ride on duty as simply motors. Police are also trained to assist persons in distress, such as motorists whose car has broken down and people experiencing a medical emergency. Police are typically trained in basic first aid such as CPR.

In addition, some park rangers are commissioned as law enforcement officers and carry out a law-enforcement role within national parks and other back-country wilderness and recreational areas, whereas Military police perform law enforcement functions within the military.


Based on this information, it is reasonable to conclude that 'within the scope of their official duties' would mean relevant to performing any of the above activities.

[MedicCop]

....shall not be questioned.

The right to bear arms is not being questioned in this instance.

[normanvin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_officer

Responsibilities of a police officer are varied, and may differ greatly from within one political context to another. Typical duties relate to keeping the peace, law enforcement, protection of people and property and the investigation of crimes. Officers are expected to respond to a variety of situations that may arise while they are on duty. Rules and guidelines dictate how an officer should behave within the community, and in many contexts, restrictions are placed on what the uniformed officer wears. In some countries, rules and procedures dictate that a police officer is obliged to intervene in a criminal incident, even if they are off-duty. Police officers in nearly all countries retain their lawful powers while off duty.[8]

In the majority of Western legal systems, the major role of the police is to maintain order, keeping the peace through surveillance of the public, and the subsequent reporting and apprehension of suspected violators of the law. They also function to discourage crimes through high-visibility policing, and most police forces have an investigative capability. Police have the legal authority to arrest and detain, usually granted by magistrates. Police officers also respond to emergency calls, along with routine community policing.

Police are often used as an emergency service and may provide a public safety function at large gatherings, as well as in emergencies, disasters, search and rescue situations, and road traffic collisions. To provide a prompt response in emergencies, the police often coordinate their operations with fire and emergency medical services. In some countries, individuals serve jointly as police officers as well as firefighters (creating the role of fire police). In many countries, there is a common emergency service number that allows the police, firefighters, or medical services to be summoned to an emergency. Some countries, such as the United Kingdom have outlined command procedures, for the use in major emergencies or disorder. The Gold Silver Bronze command structure is a system set up to improve communications between ground based officers and the control room, typically, Bronze Commander would be a senior officer on the ground, coordinating the efforts in the center of the emergency, Silver Commanders would be positioned in an 'Incident Control Room' erected to improve better communications at the scene, and a Gold Commander who would be in the Control Room.

Police are also responsible for reprimanding minor offenders by issuing citations which typically may result in the imposition of fines, particularly for violations of traffic law. Traffic enforcement is often and effectively accomplished by police officers on motorcycles—called motor officers, these officers refer to the motorcycles they ride on duty as simply motors. Police are also trained to assist persons in distress, such as motorists whose car has broken down and people experiencing a medical emergency. Police are typically trained in basic first aid such as CPR.

In addition, some park rangers are commissioned as law enforcement officers and carry out a law-enforcement role within national parks and other back-country wilderness and recreational areas, whereas Military police perform law enforcement functions within the military.


Based on this information, it is reasonable to conclude that 'within the scope of their official duties' would mean relevant to performing any of the above activities.

Sure this makes sense but some would say that the officer is officially on duty from the time he clocks in until the time he clocks out. In some instances he can act in an official capacity when he is off duty.

[Bang]

I see. So, the officer can ask anything s/he thinks up. Like, are you having your period? (Based upon untoward operation of the vehicle, she could be suffering the Megan Kelly Effect and thus be excused).

Learning that she has a LTCF had nothing to do with the question? Perhaps he could ask for her marriage license if she is wearing a wedding band. Got it.

[soberbyker]

Totally her fault, going almost 50 in a 25, and the guy let her go. I guess being young and pretty gets you somewhere in life.

Now, the reason why this is being posted in a gun forum...

Havertown PD officer asked her if she was carrying, because "her license to carry came up on record."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but A the cop isn't supposed to ask and B she didn't have to answer... and C, the LTCF is not supposed to show up "on record" by the police.

Am I just imagining all that?

She was not carrying (works as a teacher) and played ball with the officer, which may be why he let her go, but I'm kinda mad as Hell about the whole questioning and on record nonsense.

Thoughts?

Haverford is part of DELCOM, Delaware County's police radio system, I often hear on the scanner the DELCOM "clean" operator give LTCF info along with operator/vehicle info whether the cop asks for it or not.

They can ask anything they want. Whether you are required to answer is another matter.

The whole "can they see if you have a LTCF on their computer" thing is a common question and I don't recall a straightforward answer.
Maybe some can and some can't?

I'm more upset that he let someone slide for driving that fast in a 25 MPH zone.
I won't say anything more about that at this time.

The speed limit is what you should drive, however, I live in this general area, there are a lot of 25 mph roads that could easily be listed at 40 or more. I know of one road that's 25 mph on a fairly flat straight stretch of the road that turns into a 35 mph road and becomes a more narrow and winding stretch of road in a similar neighborhood.

[The Unknown 1087]

I did a ride along last week here in Lancaster County and can confirm, it does show up. I got told "It'll only show up if its issued by Lancaster county, if it's out of county, we wont know."

Cop was cool about it though "Safest place for it is in the holster".

[ungawa]

Asking a person if they are carrying, upon knowledge of their possession of an LTCF, is more a rhetorical question, unless the LEO needs to arrest this person.

LEOs should assume the holder of an LTCF is carrying a firearm, period.

This is not rocket science.

They should assume EVERYONE is carrying a firearm, period. And then !*# $%^& @#% &*^

[PAMedic=F|A=]

I did a ride along last week here in Lancaster County and can confirm, it does show up. I got told "It'll only show up if its issued by Lancaster county, if it's out of county, we wont know."

Cop was cool about it though "Safest place for it is in the holster".

Which makes me think the Lancaster County Sheriff is violating the law by disclosing LTCF information.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

How would you expect an officer on the street without access to that information obtain it without the PSAP obtaining it for them? Like it or not, logistically, the PSAP is the point at which sensitive data is obtained/transmitted on behalf of law enforcement.

And the law does not state "part of an investigation", it says "within the scope of their official duties".

The inability for police departments to properly staff their own PSAP or keep an officer in the office to contact PSP does not change the fact that disclosure to a PSAP is a violation of the law. I can't violate protocol just because I can't contact the hospital to get authorization from a doc to deviate.It's pretty simple. If a person says they have a LTCF, the cop can believe them, he can arrest them if he doesn't believe them (and face civil rights charges if he is wrong), or he can take their info and check later, and if he finds out they are breaking the law & lied, have a warrant issued and arrest them later.

[pennsylvaniaboy]

While I fully support and respect police, you guys act like they follow the rules. I have come to realize that the rules do not apply to government.....at any level.