LEO encounter at Home Depot in Allentown

[emsjeep]

[snip]If the police can just take your firearm and run the serial number to see if it's stolen, then why can't they stop your car and run the VIN against the stolen car database?

Without evidence of an ACTUAL crime, the cops shouldn't be able to exercise the power of the state to make you do anything at all, including talk to them, show ID, turn over any possessions, or piss into a cup.

They do, its called a Plate Hunter...

It’s catching on with Law Enforcement agencies across the country that the Mobile Plate Hunter-900 can be used to help collect taxes, parking ticket fees and other revenues. With “hot lists” of license plates related to individuals with these types of violations, officers can find them anywhere, any time and respond accordingly.

Homeland Security applications of the Mobile Plate Hunter-900®, the most accurate and advanced Automatic License Plate Reader technology available, are increasing rapidly. The LPR system’s ability to read strings of alpha-numeric characters and compare them instantaneously to Hot Lists allows a Command Center to organize and strategize efforts in reaction to the information captured. A combination of mobile, patrol car-mounted MPH-900® License Plate Reader systems as well as fixed LPR systems— which can be mounted to bridges, gates and other high traffic areas—can help keep a tight watch on entire cities, ports, borders and other vulnerable areas. Even cargo container identifications can be read from cameras on aircraft 1500 feet in the air. And every LPR camera is capturing critical data such as color photos, date and time stamps, as well as GPS coordinates on every vehicle that passes or is passed. This incredible database provides a wealth of clues and proof, which can greatly aid Law Enforcement with:

> Pattern recognition
> Placing a suspect at a scene
> Watch list development
> Identifying witnesses
> Possible visual clues revealed within the image of a car’s immediate environment

[flanuva]

Not to change the subject, but did anyone notice "produce" is spelled "produc" in paragraph 12 of the complaint?

Where is the response to the complaint or havent they issued one yet?

[truecrimson]

More documents available, and a recording

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkba/archive.html


http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...dentreport.pdf Police Incident Report pdf

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...sComplaint.pdf Complaint PDF

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...er01052009.pdf Answer PDF

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...er02172009.pdf Scheduling Order 02/17/2009 pdf

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...der2-17-09.pdf Settlement Conference Order 02/17/2009 pdf - Conference didn't happen.

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...on03252009.pdf Stokes Deposition 03/25/2009 pdf

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...on03252009.pdf Hoogenboom Deposition 03/25/2009 pdf

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...on03252009.pdf Corliss Deposition 03/25/2009 pdf

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...on07022009.pdf Chief MacLean Deposition 07/02/2009 pdf

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...on07092009.pdf Barry Deposition 07/09/2009 pdf

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...on07092009.pdf Bassler Deposition 07/09/2009 pdf

http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...nt12102009.mp3 Oral Arguments 12/10/2009 mp3 It's quiet, turn your volume up.

[LittleRedToyota]

They do, its called a Plate Hunter...

he said the VIN, though, not the plate number.

plates are visible in passing. there is no need to seize the person or the car to check them. VINs are a different story.

if the serial number of your gun were visible to anyone just passing by, like a license plate is, then that would be a different story. but, it isn't. in order to access it, the officer must seize the gun.

(ETA: oops...just realized i responded to a rather old post.)

[BimmerJon]

Robert J. Magee is my new hero

[Paradigm]

If you want to see how willing Chief MacLean is to violating MPOETC training, check out his deposition. The good stuff starts around page 28.

Basically, given the same circumstances, he'd want his officers to respond EXACTLY the same way. Ugh.

[GunLawyer001]

Listening to the oral argument; the City is toast, arguing that the cop is allowed to psychically guess at possible crimes (assume that plaintiff carried in a vehicle without having seen him in a vehicle); that a complaint by a citizen that a person merely holds a gun is grounds for an investigative detention; that your 4th Amendment rights are reduced on private property because the store owner can ask a cop to roust you; that the plaintiff would lie and deny having the LTCF even though he had it on him and the lie would serve no possible purpose, rather than say that he's "not required to show it" which is true and logical. The City's counsel mischaracterized the most key fact from the plaintiff's deposition, and claimed that he admitted that he lied and claimed not to have an LTCF.

The side that lies is the side with the weakest case.

Also enjoyed the part about the guy with the gun could have been a jilted lover intent on murder, even though all the cop knows is that a person has a firearm in a state where most citizens can lawfully have a firearm.

And the "mere encounter" where the citizen is disarmed, his wallet rifled through, he's ordered to hold his hands in the air, the gun is unloaded and placed nearby, the LTCF is run by the Sheriff, the subject is forcibly identified and run for wants & warrants, and he's interrogated. Hate to see what Allentown cops do when they're serious.

ETA: I like this judge, he's following the issues, and has backed the City's counsel into arguing that guns are so inherently dangerous today (as opposed to "1857 Wyoming") that any cop can stop any gun owner as long as someone complains that "he has a gun". In Philly Common Pleas this would work; but this judge isn't buying it....
Oh, it gets better: having that LTCF is STILL not enough to remove reasonable suspicion and set the citizen free, because it "could have been revoked".

[anonymouse]

If the oral arguments took place on 12/10/2009, what's the current status of the case? What happens next?

[headcase]

I can't access the oral arguments page. Am I doing something wrong, or is it just down?

[gnbrotz]

Robert J. Magee is my new hero

I agree. I've had the privilege of seeing him work in person. It's a beautiful thing.