New QotD, Carrying to the courthouse...

[headcase]

When you find yourself having to conduct business at the county courthouse, do you just leave your sidearm in the car, at home, or bring it and hope you do not have a problem with checking it? I, and most of us, know they have to have a check in procedure and provide lockers by law, but for me, personally, I have yet to work up the nerve to test the procedure at the Monroe county courthouse.

How do you answer for your situation?

[bdevil73]

The last time I was at the Beaver County Courthouse, I left it locked in the car. I wasn't sure how to proceed with checking it in, so I figured I would ask so that next time I could take it with me. When I asked about the proper procedures, I was told that the lockers were for police only and I should leave it at home. I new that was not true, but did not have time to debate the issue. I haven't been back since then. I probably won't go back until it's time to renew my LTCF next year. I'm still debating whether I want to go through the hassle or just leave it locked in the car again. I think I'll write a letter to the sheriff inquiring about the proper procedures and see what kind of response I get. Then I'll go from there.

[joe15003]

Originally Posted by bdevil73

The last time I was at the Beaver County Courthouse, I left it locked in the car. I wasn't sure how to proceed with checking it in, so I figured I would ask so that next time I could take it with me. When I asked about the proper procedures, I was told that the lockers were for police only and I should leave it at home. I new that was not true, but did not have time to debate the issue. I haven't been back since then. I probably won't go back until it's time to renew my LTCF next year. I'm still debating whether I want to go through the hassle or just leave it locked in the car again. I think I'll write a letter to the sheriff inquiring about the proper procedures and see what kind of response I get. Then I'll go from there.

I was at the courthouse in Beaver County about a month ago. I did see lockers there, but if you are a police officer why wouldn't you be able to carry into the courthouse if you have a hearing that you are attending. Personally I left it in the car locked up because I had my step-daughter with me and did not want to cause a scene for her.

[cgbudde]

Last time I was there, 2yrs ago, I was told by the rent a cop at the metal detecter there was no law for them to provide lockers and I could be arrested for having it inside the building, but she would give me a break. Before I went there I contacted the PA attorney generals office to confirm they would be in violation af state law. Knowing this I demanded this useless robot have a sheriffs deputy come and speak to me. He confirmned that the lockers were there in compliance with the state law but they discurage people from comong to the couts with firearms because if someone was unloading the weapon and it went of there was no protection for others. in conclusion when I told him I understood but did not feel that leaving the gun in my car was not safe and the lockers were there and contrary to what other misinformned individuals present that I was not violating any laws he used a locker to secure my handgun. So not to sound like a trouble maker but politily stand your ground and insist they abide by state law. You could also write to the president judge and explain to him that this facility in not in complience with state law, maybe he cou;d make sure these officers and keystone cops abide by it.

[pex]

If they give you trouble (to the point of detainment/arrest, maybe?) and you're in the right, shoot them; they are tyranny.

Otherwise, I'd follow the simple steps:

1) Call the courthouse and ask how you can get a floor plan, specifically with demarcations of security checkpoints and any office or room defined by 'court facility' in 913.
1.A) If that fails, try contacting regional code administration or whoever keeps floor plans.
2) Print and carry 913, 6106, and 6120.
3) Stand outside the courthouse and call the court administrator, telling them that you have business with offices of the court and ask them how to proceed pursuant to 913. Do not allow them to tell you to do illegal things, and bring to their attention any suggestion that tends to lead to such a conclusion.
4) Call the county sheriff and ask the same question. Do not allow the sheriff to tell you to do anything that would be illegal.
5) Call the county commissioners (or whoever would be responsible for 'the county' and its placing of storage lockers, since I'm not sure if we've decided, or a court has resolved, who is actually responsible for the locker provisions) and try to get the same answer the court admin and sheriff gave you.
6) Proceed once your sources are in agreement, and follow the law, which you have printed and available.
7) Do not allow the sheriff/security-officer to waive you through a 'court facility' to check your weapon. Ask that he take your firearm, which you will unload (I would personally keep the magazine and bullets as I don't find they fit 'dangerous weapon' definition in 913, although someone more fearful would just want to unload and clear the weapon to handoff the sheriff as you both travel to the storage lockers.) Have him place it in the locker and give you the key/receipt/whatever.
8) Take care of your business, return to the locker, request your firearm or open the locker, and ask the security officer to walk it back to a safe area (a non-a-court-facility) to then hand you your firearm.

[PennsyPlinker]

Many years ago, I entered the Northampton County Government Center with my firearm. I walked up to the desk, where I was asked by the guard to step through the metal detector. I told him I was legally carrying a concealed gun. He turned to his partner there and said,

"He's got a gun! What do we do? WHAT DO WE DO!?!"

"Take it away from him and give him a receipt for it. Then lock it up in the lockers over there."

That was it - that time.

The two other times over the past few years I had to go to Lehigh County, I let my gun in the truck.

Last week, well, you already know that story. But for those who might have missed it...

I walked into the Lehigh County Courthouse to get my paperwork signed for a suppressor. Again I was asked to step through the metal detector. I informed the deputy that I was legally carrying a gun and that I wanted him to check it for me. He started yelling at the top of his lungs.

"YOU CAN'T BRING A GUN IN HERE!!! THAT'S ILLEGAL!!!"

"Actually sir, it is illegal to take it past this checkpoint. It is not illegal for me to bring it to this point. I would like you to secure it for me."

"IT IS ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO BRING IT IN HERE. YOU CAN BE ARRESTED FOR THAT!!! HERE COMES THE SHERIFF HIMSELF!!!"

I looked, and sure enough, there was Himself coming in the door.

"What's the problem here?"

"THIS GUY BROUGHT A GUN WITH HIM!!!"

"YOU CAN'T BRING A GUN IN HERE!!! THAT'S ILLEGAL!!!"

"Actually sir, it is legal to bring it to this point and have it secured. I did not want to leave it in my truck."

"YOU SHOULD HAVE LEFT IT AT HOME!!!

"Well you are the one who gave me the license to carry it around with me."

"I DON'T CARE!!!" DON'T EVER BRING IT IN HERE AGAIN!!! YOU COULD BE ARRESTED!!!

I thought I was about to be arrested, but he calmed down and told me to come along with him, and he would secure it for me. He took me in his office, called for a deputy to take my gun, and secured it in the bank of safes on a cabinet in his office. I was given the key.

From that time to the time I reappeared in his office to sign my papers, which I was sure he wasn't going to do, he had some sort of change. He was as pleasant as could be, signed everything, apologized for the wait, and told the deputy to give me my gun back and take me to a safe room where I could reload and reholster before leaving the courthouse.

In my conversation with some of the deputies there, it seems that they know it is legal to bring a gun to the checkpoint and have it secured. Not all do, and I am not exactly sure where the sheriff stands on it. I am thinking of sending him a training memo before I have to go back there again. If I do, I will sign it...

Yours truly,

Headcase

...just in case there are any problems, you know.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by PennsyPlinker

<snip> I am thinking of sending him a training memo before I have to go back there again. If I do, I will sign it...

Yours truly,

Headcase

...just in case there are any problems, you know.

What do I care about silly Lehigh valley? Now if you sent it to Monroe's...In the words of a famous WB elephant,"You do and I'll give you such a pinch!!!!!!!!!!".

[PennsyPlinker]

Originally Posted by pex

7) Do not allow the sheriff/security-officer to waive you through a 'court facility' to check your weapon. Ask that he take your firearm, which you will unload (I would personally keep the magazine and bullets as I don't find they fit 'dangerous weapon' definition in 913, although someone more fearful would just want to unload and clear the weapon to handoff the sheriff as you both travel to the storage lockers.) Have him place it in the locker and give you the key/receipt/whatever.

This appears to be written in the imaginary future tense, if you will. Have you actually done any of this stuff, or are you just supposing?

[Evolution]

Originally Posted by bdevil73

The last time I was at the Beaver County Courthouse, I left it locked in the car. I wasn't sure how to proceed with checking it in, so I figured I would ask so that next time I could take it with me. When I asked about the proper procedures, I was told that the lockers were for police only and I should leave it at home. I new that was not true, but did not have time to debate the issue. I haven't been back since then. I probably won't go back until it's time to renew my LTCF next year. I'm still debating whether I want to go through the hassle or just leave it locked in the car again. I think I'll write a letter to the sheriff inquiring about the proper procedures and see what kind of response I get. Then I'll go from there.

Police can carry in a courthouse while on active duty correct? Then wtf would they need the gun locker for?

[adymond]

Originally Posted by pex

If they give you trouble (to the point of detainment/arrest, maybe?) and you're in the right, shoot them; they are tyranny.

Seems a little extreme since it is usually misinformed idiots. I don't think all of them know the law. They are ignorant tnad think that they ARE the law, but that is a different discussion. I honestly hope you aren't serious about that.

Glad to know that the courthouse has the obligation to provide a locker for me though. Thanks for the info in this thread.