Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WWGunslinger
I assume that pockets on the outside of the case are still considered the same case or is that ok?
Outside pockets are considered separate compartments of a container and are okay for use to separate charged magazines from the firearm.
18 Pa.C.S. § 6102: Definitions
Subject to additional definitions contained in subsequent provisions of this subchapter which are applicable to specific provisions of this subchapter, the following words and phrases, when used in this subchapter shall have, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, the meanings given to them in this section:
…
“Loaded.” A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm.
…
Note that once HB 40, i.e., the recently-signed Castle Doctrine bill, becomes effective on August 29th, 2011, you will not need to store magazines in a separate compartment or container if the magazine is inserted into anything that fully encloses the ammunition, such as a magazine holder or pouch. The amended definition of “loaded” will be as follows:
§ 6102. Definitions.
Subject to additional definitions contained in subsequent provisions of this subchapter which are applicable to specific provisions of this subchapter, the following words and phrases, when used in this subchapter shall have, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, the meanings given to them in this section:
…
“Loaded.” A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm. If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder, holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment.
…
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WWGunslinger
Yikes! I didn't realize that you couldn't have a loaded rifle in the vehicle or even couldn't have loaded mags in the same container (case) even with an LTCF.
I've never transported a rifle loaded, but have always kept the loaded mags in the same case with the rifle.
I assume that pockets on the outside of the case are still considered the same case or is that ok?
Having ammo in a Mag in the same container with firearms in the same soft / hard gun will be legalized around Aug 28-29, 2011 with the signing into law HB 40 ("so called" Castle Doctrine) now know as Act 10 of 2011 goes into effect.
http://forum.pafoa.org/1638251-post-1558.html
Parts of this HB 40 effort (under the radar) that few have notice deals with problems that more of US have or have had in the past with the UFA.
here is a quick overview of what else is in the "so called" Castle Doctrine that governor Tom Corbett is signed on June 28, 2011
§ 3903. Grading of theft offenses (theft of firearms) – increasing penalty
§ 6102. Definitions (Redefined “loaded” with transportation of firearm)
Anyone every go hunting or to the range and have ammo in the same hard case or soft gun case because it was convenient, most of us broke this law sometime. That never should have been written, other than erasing this definition this will solve many of our innocent violations without criminal intent to hurt anyone.
§ 6109. Licenses - Restricts any Commonwealth agency to regulate the possession of firearms
I bet more than a few people on PAFOA will need these and even use them to test the legal fence at state parks or other PA agencies when they try to enforce the dept regulations with things like OC.
The new section that defines "Loaded" is on Page 11-12 as follows
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...type=B&BN=0040
Quote:
If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder, holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment.
with this change in the UFA in effect, part of Act 10 of 2011
Theoretically, you can now take youR loaded magazines and put them in a clear zip lock bag, seal them and put them right next to your unloaded firearm in the same case, same could also be said with putting a cap over the exposed magazines such the ammo is not exposed (as mag pouches do) you also would be good to go to follow the text as outlined above.
with or without a LTCF permit.
Title 34 (wildlife violations) can still play havoc with the above, still this should clarify this as long as you not poaching.
IF you don't have a LTCF permit this is another effort to correct another UFA problem that is in the legislative process to attempt to become a law.
By the removing of the "no stop" wording in the UFA (HB 1668) would let PA match the Feds interstate transportation clause dealing wth "Unloaded firearms"
Note for any nick pickers out there
there is not any specific “no stop” wording, this is generalization for people that don’t study and read every word in the UFA to understand the existing problem in laymen’s terms as most people break this law without realizing they did, because its poorly worded clause in a section of law that we are trying to fix.
People have lost their firearm rights over this no stops clause just because they stopped somewhere coming back from a FFL dealer with an unloaded firearm, then had minor traffic stop. When its combined with other law violation it has a possible ratcheting up effect, like a trumped up charge or interfering with officer, when trying to give them the keys to a locked consol, while they where trying to pry it open and break it.
We haven't been able to find any cases of this section of law of not be able to stop ever be applied to repeat violent criminal, so who was it intend for?
There is a very defined limitation of ONLY where you can transport your unloaded firearms to or from and no exemptions, no provision or deviations are given to transport a firearm other than what is specifically allowed in the UFA,that is IF you don’t have a LTCF permit or exempted from having a LTCF (like LEO's).
Hence the reason for keeping the legislative intent to keep it a simple concept to gather support.
Remove the existing limited places language of where you can transport unloaded firearms in PA this remove the restriction problem of not be allowed to stop en route to anywhere. Then there is no place that you can't stop no is there?
This (HB 1668) effort if sucessful will allow OC to not be required to have a LTCF permit in PA to transport unloaded firearms.... Again within other limiting constraints of the complex existing laws contained in the UFA that still may play a factor.
Maybe its just that we have allowed the UFA to expand over the years that is / has just gotten to dang complex that most people have no idea what the firearm laws are, let alone the legal traps in existing firearm laws in PA till they get snared by them.
Hope that clarifies the "NO STOP" effort for the 2011-2012 session.
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhiteFeather
By the removing of the "no stop" wording in the UFA (HB 1668) would let PA match the Feds interstate transportation clause dealing wth "Unloaded firearms"
Note for any nick pickers out there
there is not any specific “no stop” wording, this is generalization for people that don’t study and read every word in the UFA to understand the existing problem in laymen’s terms as most people break this law without realizing they did, because its poorly worded clause in a section of law that we are trying to fix.
First off, it's "nitpickers". Google can explain the origins of the term.
Anyway, I fail to see why the existing language of the UFA requires the use of inaccurate statements to promote a change. It's really very simple to explain in an honest manner:
Quote:
Current law limits transportation of firearms by non-licensed individuals to a very few, specific places, and even in those cases, you may not make any additional stops. We are proposing legislation that would add an additional licensing exception to the law, so that anyone who can legally possess a firearm, can also legally transport that firearm without a license.
Feel free to use that if you don't think it's to uppity for the common man to understand.:rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhiteFeather
Hence the reason for keeping the legislative intent to keep it a simple concept to gather support.
So it's actually the Legislature's intent that the proposed language be misrepresented to the public? I'll have to contact my Rep. (a co-sponsor) and ask him about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhiteFeather
Remove the existing limited places language of where you can transport unloaded firearms in PA this remove the restriction problem of not be allowed to stop en route to anywhere. Then there is no place that you can't stop no is there?
Again I ask: What language is being removed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhiteFeather
Maybe its just that we have allowed the UFA to expand over the years that is / has just gotten to dang complex that most people have no idea what the firearm laws are, let alone the legal traps in existing firearm laws in PA till they get snared by them.
Maybe it's because those proposing the changes are playing word games themselves, too. I agree that many statute are poorly worded and unnecessarily vague, but IMO, that is not an excuse to promote new legislation with a 'sales pitch' that is blatantly false on it's face.
*All observations have been made by a lowly high-school graduate with no advanced training in the law or political science.
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
I appreciate the promotion of new legislative efforts, and the retorts which attempt to vet said efforts. However, please be reminded that this thread is to discuss the current state of the law, so that people can be clear on what they can and cannot do today.
Let's try and keep it on topic please.
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
Ok so I have a quick question. I have been wanting to open carry for a while now but I don't have a pistol to do it with. I have a WASR 10 that I thought about doing it with but I don't want to get in trouble(of course). I have read this entire thread and did see it but didn't quite understand it. Is this rifle even legal to carry, do I need a certain liscense? The barrel is exactly 16" and is 34.5" overall. I just want to put it on my back with a sling. Also I saw it saying rifle with barrels less that 16" but does it apply if it is 16". Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Luke.
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
there is no law against the open or concealed carry of a non-NFA-regulated long gun outside of Philadelphia (where a license to carry firearms is required to do so; everywhere else, it is legal to do so without a LTCF).
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
Thank so much, that is what I understood but I misunderstand things a lot so I wanted a second opinion on it, again Thanks a lot
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
I'm thinking about going hiking this weekend in one of the state parks.
What's the deal if there's a sign that says "No guns here"? If i remember correctly I saw one last hike.
I have the LTCF. What's the deal with or without one?
Any response is appreciated. Thanks.
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kawiman88
I'm thinking about going hiking this weekend in one of the state parks.
What's the deal if there's a sign that says "No guns here"? If i remember correctly I saw one last hike.
I have the LTCF. What's the deal with or without one?
Any response is appreciated. Thanks.
In State Parks, until the "Castle Doctrine" wording is hashed out - you should have a LTCF and you should keep it concealed, for now. I imagine that there are some older "no guns" sign out there. But a law a couple years ago made it legal for folks with a LTCF to carry concealed in State Parks.