Delco Courthouse

[MikeinPhilly]

So I had the day off today and went to the courthouse to get a copy of my LTCF since my current one is can't be read any more. I get inside and tell the Park Police that I need to check my firearm. He tells me I have to go around the corner and across the street to check the firearm.

I get there and the receptionist tells me to fill out a form with my name, LTCF #, make and model, and serial number. I told her I don't need my LTCF since i'm on foot, etc etc.

At that point a 2 police officers come out from the back to observe and the one begins to tell me how its "policy" to get that info and I respond that I don't need to and why once again. To which he responds "since when"?

He then proceeds to tell me how I can get my balls busted for open carry and I respond that it would be offical oppression and violation of civil rights if they did and she shut up pretty quick.

The 2nd officer comes over now and keeps asking to see my LTCF and I explain thats why I am here to get a new one and my old 1 is worn out and can't read the number.

So I finally get it checked and head back to the courthouse to get my replacement and return to pick up my firearm without incident and no sign of the 2 officers.

Now a couple of questions:
- Aren't the lockers supposed to be IN the courthouse?
- Is is legal for them to ask for serial number?

[BimmerJon]

Now a couple of questions:
- Aren't the lockers supposed to be IN the courthouse?
- Is is legal for them to ask for serial number?

I would say yes and no

[em2b96p]

"I get there and the receptionist tells me to fill out a form with my name, LTCF #, make and model, and serial number. I told her I don't need my LTCF since i'm on foot, etc etc."

What do you mean you dont need your LTCF since you're on foot? im confused...

[uniballin]

"I get there and the receptionist tells me to fill out a form with my name, LTCF #, make and model, and serial number. I told her I don't need my LTCF since i'm on foot, etc etc."

What do you mean you dont need your LTCF since you're on foot? im confused...

You don't need an LTCF while open carrying a firearm on foot.

[ViperGTS19801]

What do you mean you dont need your LTCF since you're on foot? im confused...

In the state of Pennsylvania, and outside the city of Philadelphia, if you are travelling to or from a location and are openly carrying your weapon on foot, and never step into/get out of a car as seen by a LEO, you do not need to have an LTCF to be abiding by the state's gun laws.

Also, under these conditions, no demand for you to produce your LTCF is a legal one, as it is not required in the first place.

IANAL.

[HiredGoon]

... I get inside and tell the Park Police that I need to check my firearm. He tells me I have to go around the corner and across the street to check the firearm.
<SNIP>
- Aren't the lockers supposed to be IN the courthouse?

PA Title 18

§ 913. Possession of firearm or other dangerous weapon in court facility.

(a) Offense defined.--A person commits an offense if he:

1. knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility or knowingly causes a firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility; or

2. knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility with the intent that the firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime or knowingly causes a firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility with the intent that the firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime.

(b) Grading.--

1. Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (3), an offense under subsection (a)(1) is a misdemeanor of the third degree.

2. An offense under subsection (a)(2) is a misdemeanor of the first degree.

3. An offense under subsection (a)(1) is a summary offense if the person was carrying a firearm under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) or 6109 (relating to licenses) and failed to check the firearm under subsection (e) prior to entering the court facility.

(c) Exceptions.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to:

1. The lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent or employee of the United States, the Commonwealth or a political subdivision who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation or prosecution of any violation of law.

2. The lawful performance of official duties by a court official.

3. The carrying of rifles and shotguns by instructors and participants in a course of instruction provided by the Pennsylvania Game Commission under 34 Pa.C.S. § 2704 (relating to eligibility for license).

4. Associations of veteran soldiers and their auxiliaries or members of organized armed forces of the United States or the Commonwealth, including reserve components, when engaged in the performance of ceremonial duties with county approval.

5. The carrying of a dangerous weapon or firearm unloaded and in a secure wrapper by an attorney who seeks to employ the dangerous weapon or firearm as an exhibit or as a demonstration and who possesses written authorization from the court to bring the dangerous weapon or firearm into the court facility.

(d) Posting of notice.--Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each courthouse or other building containing a court facility and each court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a)(1) with respect to a court facility if the notice was not so posted at each public entrance to the courthouse or other building containing a court facility and at the court facility unless the person had actual notice of the provisions of subsection (a).

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.--Each county shall make available at or within the building containing the court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d).

(f) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

"Court facility."

The courtroom of a court of record; a courtroom of a community court; the courtroom of a district justice; a courtroom of the Philadelphia Municipal Court; a courtroom of the Pittsburgh Magistrates Court; a courtroom of the Traffic Court of Philadelphia; judge's chambers; witness rooms; jury deliberation rooms; attorney conference rooms; prisoner holding cells; offices of court clerks, the district attorney, the sheriff and probation and parole officers; and any adjoining corridors.

"Dangerous weapon."

A bomb, grenade, blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife (the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism or otherwise) or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

[323Power]

His location says Philly...but I'm assuming he doesn't live there anymore if he's OC'ing with no LTCF.

EDIT: hahah I didn't read the topic title...doh.

[Dannytheman]

Delaware County has court rooms in various buildings around the Veterans Square area. They are not all in one building. The building they send you to is part of the court house complex (County property parceled to Court) of building and passes muster for legal storage on property of courthouse.

If you want to look at it, look to google maps. The County court property runs from south to north Front to 3rd. And west to east Citron to Olive.

MOST county seats in the state are not this big. Maybe 10 in the entire State.

When I check my firearm I tell them I have no idea of the serial number, and that they are free to write it down as I pass over protection of my weapon to them. (Of course I check to make sure they write the correct number down.)

[mjf]

PA Title 18

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.--Each county shall make available at or within the building containing the court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d).[/B]

In theory they could deny your firearm if you don't have a LTCF.

This thread discusses it:
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/792...3-anomaly.html

[YosemiteSam]

Delaware County has court rooms in various buildings around the Veterans Square area. They are not all in one building. The building they send you to is part of the court house complex (County property parceled to Court) of building and passes muster for legal storage on property of courthouse.

If you want to look at it, look to google maps. The County court property runs from south to north Front to 3rd. And west to east Citron to Olive.

MOST county seats in the state are not this big. Maybe 10 in the entire State.

When I check my firearm I tell them I have no idea of the serial number, and that they are free to write it down as I pass over protection of my weapon to them. (Of course I check to make sure they write the correct number down.)

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.--Each county shall make available at or within the building containing the court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law.


IANAL My understanding is they would need lockers at every building with court facilities.I would assume each court facility building has its own security check point.