U.S. snipers accused of 'baiting' Iraqis

[WhiteFeather]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070925/...s_iraq_snipers

U.S. snipers accused of 'baiting' Iraqis
By PAULINE JELINEK and ROBERT BURNS, Associated Press Writers
1 hour, 46 minutes ago



Army snipers hunting insurgents in Iraq were under orders to "bait" their targets with suspicious materials, such as detonation cords, and then kill whoever picked up the items, according to the defense attorney for a soldier accused of planting evidence on an Iraqi he killed. Gary Myers, an attorney for Sgt. Evan Vela, said his client had acted "pursuant to orders."

"We believe that our client has done nothing more than he was instructed to do by superiors," Myers said in a telephone interview.

Myers and Vela's father, Curtis Carnahan of Idaho Falls, Idaho, said in separate interviews that sworn statements and testimony in the cases of two other accused Ranger snipers indicate that the Army has a classified program that encourages snipers to "bait" potential targets and then kill whoever takes the bait.

The Army on Monday declined to confirm such a program exists.

"To prevent the enemy from learning about our tactics, techniques and training procedures, we don't discuss specific methods targeting enemy combatants," said Paul Boyce, an Army spokesman.

Boyce also said there are no classified programs that authorize the murder of Iraqi civilians or the use of "drop weapons" to make killings appeared to be legally justified, which is what Vela and the two other snipers are accused of doing.

The transcript of a court hearing for two of the three accused snipers makes several references to the existence of a classified "baiting" program but provides few details of how it works. A copy of the transcript was provided to The Associated Press by Vela's father.

The Washington Post, which first reported the existence of the "baiting" program, cited the sworn statement of Capt. Matthew P. Didier, the leader of a Ranger sniper scout platoon.

"Baiting is putting an object out there that we know they will use, with the intention of destroying the enemy," Didier said in the statement. "Basically, we would put an item out there and watch it. If someone found the item, picked it up and attempted to leave with the item, we would engage the individual as I saw this as a sign they would use the item against U.S. forces."

The Post said the program was devised by the Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group, which advises commanders on more effective methods in today's unconventional conflicts, including ways to combat roadside bombs.

Within months of the "baiting" program's introduction, three snipers in Didier's platoon were charged with murder for allegedly using those items and others to make shootings seem legitimate, according to the Post.

The Post said that although it doesn't appear that the three alleged shootings were specifically part of the classified program, defense attorneys argue that the program may have encouraged them by blurring the legal lines in a complex war zone.

The court martial of one of the accused soldiers, Spec. Jorge Sandoval Jr., is scheduled to begin in Baghdad on Wednesday. Also facing premeditated murder charges are Vela and Staff Sgt. Michael Hensley.

They are part of the Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion, 501st Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division, based at Fort Richardson, Alaska.

[righteousbarbarian]

it actually sounds like a good idea to me.

[Roscoe]

Baiting seems like a good idea to me.

Bringing charges against these soldiers for carrying out orders for something we sent them there to do doesn't though....:mad

[LorDiego01]

so if I leave a gun on the street..

and some schmuck picks it up, then its ok for me to blow his head off from 400 yards away?? I mean, does picking the gun make him a criminal?

What if said criminal would pick it up to hand it to police?

Maybe some iraqui schmuck picked it up to hand it to US forces, maybe they see something "valuable" and figure they might try to swap it for food at the market...

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but I'd say I disagree with this practice more than I would agree with it, given the ginormous room for error, again, with the little information available to us from this and other articles, I may be completely wrong.

Then again, they did drop mines and food packets in Afghanistan that BOTH looked VERY similar.. (yellow packets anybody?)

[Azzy]

Im just picturing some terrorist walking over to pick up a big mac in the middle of the desert..

[craigc]

This tactic HAS and will Continue to save our Hooahs lives this is being prosected by some Legass REMF that never leaves the green zone.We have about 10 friends from our site that all are saying that their hands are being tyed so bad about rules of engagement it ain't funny

[Roscoe]

Ok since we are speculating, suppose the intelligence people get an Iraqi/Coalition agent to set up a sting.

ie: Have an Iraqi dirtbag pick up some bomb making materials that were to be used to make an IED. Would it be ok to take him out.

I don't think that someone just laid down a weapon and waited for some poor schlep to pick it up so he can bust a cap in his ass, do you I mean come on.

[Wasz]

I dunno how I feel, but I reminds me of that Vietnam movie. I think it was Apocalypse Now. Where they are riding in the huey and the gunner is blowing away everyone and everything he sees. The guy goes he has over 200 confirmed kills not including water buffalo. They ask how they know who's VC and who isnt. The gunner looks over and says

"Anyone who looks up is VC anyone who doesn't look up is a well trained VC."

You cant tell who's what over there. If some dude picks somethings strange up it doesnt mean he was insurgent. Of course when they find him and he has primacord on him (that he just picked up) then clearly he is a bomb builder. The situation over there is bad. I dont have answers, but it just doesnt seem right to shoot someone because they picked something up off the street, I dunno. It just seems too much like indescrimant killing.

[jsb889]

It might be a civilian that picked it up to give it to US soldiers, sell it to the enemy because he's poor as all hell, or just wants to keep it in his house for decoration. I'd imagine this would be the most likely scenario. As much as I love our snipers, I don't agree with this at all.

[markheck1]

Hell, I'd pick it up just to play with it....

I know it can get some terrorists, and save lives,
but I think it's a little too far...
now prosecuting someone for following orders...Nah....