Phishing out the right answer

[Frenchy]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Friends and fellow PA Gun owners.

There are people you might have noticed that are on a "Phishing" rampage. Asking questions that have already been answered many times.

In one post on the forum, we have a 19 YO asking questions about how he can legally carry or own a gun. In an other post, we have some one in Philadelphia asking how to carry without a permit…
These people are hell bent on getting an answer that is already answered multiple times here, and to people who usually don’t stick around after they don’t get the answer they want.
When giving advice, (and I don’t mean to say don’t give info) we all need to be careful of not giving advice that may lead to breaking a law, and or be used by some one later to say PAFOA said this. Because believe it or not, as we are not officially a .Org, there are people who actually believe we (as members) are all very knowledgeable of the law.

You will notice there are 2 lawyers here at least, and one Police officer we all respect, who do not re-post on these threads, mainly because they probably realize the people posting should just do a search in the forum to get the answer, It is there!

But even if they did look, they did not find that they wanted. (and as they want a specific answer they have not found yet and will probably not find...) So they ask again in hope some one will find them a loop hole or be brave enough to say some thing with out thinking about how the law could possibly allow them to do some thing.

This is called Phishing, (fishing) or a form thereof and is not unusual of people who are looking to get into a situation where if caught, they can come back and say “So and So at PAFOA.Org said it can be done…"

NOT that this in it self would be a good defense, more a lame excuse if anything, but as this could possibly get PAFOA into the news in a negative light, we should probably just tell the people asking for the same situations over and over again, to just search the answer is there, and if they cant find it… Get a lawyer who can counsel them.

There are disclaimers all over the site saying any advice here is not “legal” advice or binding to the members in anyway… But we all know, as a group, we could very well hit the news some day with an article in the news papers saying “19 year old Student gets caught with a firearm in school” …
”student said he has read on PAFOA.org that many students carry…” …
”The student was told by a member that”

“Dan P. Founder of PAFOA commented that while PAFOA is a good resource for information, there are disclaimers on the site telling the users to get legal counsel before any actions they carry out, and the opinions of the members are their own and may not be supported by PAFOA.Org…”

We see this all the time, but the damage is already done, the news people KNOW how to make a story sound the way they want it to be read. Even if they do some times place a disclaimer on it at the end.

So when dealing with people who come here and ask a $1,000,000 question that already has been answered in previous threads, maybe the best advice is to read those other threads. Many times, the question is just a matter of wording… I am 18 and need a gun, I am 19 and want to know how to buy a gun, I am 20 How would I go about finding a place to sell me a gun, I am 17 and need to know if my Step dad had a gun, could I …
The answer is already out there. Just in different words. Don’t get lured into these situations where people change a few words to re ask a question.

I have no doubt there are people out there who really want to learn, but the best way to learning is to go and get the info already out there.

To the guy in Philly, there is no legal way to carry a gun in Philly for self protection without a LTCF.

To all the 19 year olds out there, whether you want to be a police, a lawyer, a doctor or a garbage man, there is no legal way to buy a hand gun at your age. It can be gifted to you by your direct parents, Grand Parents but not bought or sold. The law was posted here on the forum, it is on the State pages, and the answer will remain the same no mater how often you ask or how many words you change.

We are now much larger then we once where, It is time we become a little more proactive in the group.

[Pa. Patriot]

Your jumping to a lot of conclusions. A pet peeve of mine, sorry.

Why not just answer the question accurately (again, if that is the case of a redundant question) and move on...

[XD45]

I do dislike the younger kids asking how to get guns, and carry them without being 21, or do this or that.. Also the law is fairly straight forward on many things, and some people just dont get it and its sort of scary they have a gun anyway.. you just wanna smack some sense into them..and they never seem to ask "Hey could someone maybe get me familiar with guns, as i'd like to someday get my own" I always avoid the threads of people who don't seem to be on the up and up, whether by safety standards or legality standards...

But theres so much that goes on here, that to us is just daily talk but to some antis it could seem like we are endangering people. or to someone new to guns they could do something wrong, or miss a step and boom in the hospital, or to the coroners they go, whether its in a load they got off of a thread, or asking how to rework a trigger just so many things.. It's a risk we take with talking about our hobby and lifestyles and the internet broadcasts it to about 500million more people than you talking to your buddy...

also for a few peoples defense, as my own as i'm sure i've asked double questions.. The VB searches have always sucked, and sometimes I like to get input from current members, or enough time has passed that there could be new variations to a thread.


Maybe we could change it to where you need so many posts before you can make a thread also..

[Frenchy]

Your jumping to a lot of conclusions. A pet peeve of mine, sorry.

Why not just answer the question accurately (again, if that is the case of a redundant question) and move on...

Because when you answered it the first time, they did not hear it. It becomes a dead horse issue and people just overlook it.

I am not saying some one who comes on and post and after a while realizes they need some thing clarified, I am saying people who actualy come on again and again asking the exact same question but in different words.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...tml#post110249

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...-question.html

You answered right away with the correct answer, the same answer both times, now what will you tell him if he asks:
"There is a city where Elton John visited once in Pennsylvania, and was so impressed he made a song about it, He called it 'Philadelphia Freedom' If I live there, can I open carry without a LTCF?"

This person and others are asking the same question over and over again to ge tthe answer they want, then when cought doing some thing illegal, they have a fall guy for it. Although it would nto bind you legally, every one knows you dont get an internet "lawyer" to answer this type of question... It could cause tons of trouble.

Answer them 500 times if you like, but to me, its a waste of time, the answer to this person should be
Get a LTCF, if you can't, contact your lawyer for further information.

[Pa. Patriot]

Waste of time? Maybe yes, maybe no.
To me, if the thread is there it is searchable. I would rather "waste the time" to put the correct answer in there so that if some unknowing soul happens on only that one thread they get the correct answer.

Don't get me wrong, I see your point. I just have been around net discussion forums since the early 90's (BBS days) and it's just the nature of the beast. That and my opinion is that all of your concerns addressed in your opriginal post are covered for the better by just answering the Q.

[Frenchy]

I would rather "waste the time" to put the correct answer in there so that if some unknowing soul happens on only that one thread they get the correct answer.

But that is because you have the "Right answer" now what if some one else answered the question the way they want to hear it, or some one PM's them to say don't tell any one, but my hubby just died, and I dont want the guns here, Come pick them up...

This is the answer they are looking for, and I dont think we should support this. Once some one is answered properly, the thread should be redirected if it is reopened. then Closed. This way we would not have the risk of some one answering the wrong way.

Just my .02 cents there are so many posts now to check out, most of us dont have hours upon hours to give to the same question over and over.

If the question is similar to an other and the answer is already there, it should be redirected, not allowed to continue.

[Pa. Patriot]

What your proposing is simply impossible to enforce.
Regardless of the intent, the Q will be answered by someone before a mod islikey to see it. If your proposing that these dup threads be deleted then fine. Click the icon and let the mods do what they may. It's not up to you or me.

Besides, what is the difference between the redundant Q, posed in the context you allege (to solicit an improper answer) and the first time question that some one answers incorrectly?

Fact is that on most forums there are more people that are willing to post what they "think" than there are people who post what they "know" (and can back it up).

[Glocker]

Good points on both sides, but ultimately it comes down to the reader of these threads taking everything they read with a "grain of salt".

Realistically, no one has the time/ability to control/manage everything that is written on these threads, that would be a full time job (What does that job position pay? Anyone up for the challenge?).

Although I am new here, I do believe that the Mods have been doing a great job managing these threads.

The Mods do a great job volunteering their time and knowledge, and we as readers/posters should do our job to best help those (like me) that are seeking info. If it seems to be a redundant question with other motives attached to it, you have the option to answer it, red flag it, or ignore it.

These threads, and forums in general, should be used as "brain stimulator's". They often guide and direct us towards further knowledge.

Just my newbie .002 cents, I hope no one has ever posted this before , don't want to be redundant You know I am kidding, this really is a great site!

If nothing else, they are often entertaining.

[ar15jules]

While I understand, or at least think I do, what Frenchy is saying, I disagree with one point or another. This is a FORUM open to anyone who fills out registration. It is not an organization that is NOT open to the general public. I really think that web forums all mean different things to different people. You can get out of the forum what you want. Some come here looking for answers because they are as we say noobs, newbies, whatever. Some, like to chit chat. A lot of you have become friends outside in the real world. Some are probably so addicted to the forum that they have become counterproductive at work, etc. Me, I like to see what other people have to say on subject matter that interests me. While I may have asked a few questions, I certainly would never take anything that I read on a web forum as gospel, or even worse, the LAW. There are other avenues to explore law and regulation related questions. Now, back to the original point, don't we as the group, need to allow anyone who has signed up to ask any question they like. If it has been asked and answered a thousand times, it is just a matter of not responding to it if you think it is "a waste of time". Some folks may never have used a forum before. I could see my old man asking a question and being told, "This has been asked and answered twenty times, use the search feature". He would scratch his head and never log in again. Do we want that? It takes more time to respond in such a way, than it does to simply pass the question up and move on to something different. I personally think threads getting locked, deleted, etc... defeat the purpose of an OPEN forum. If we HAD to pay for private membership, I think the rules could be a little different, but until that day comes, let's leave the forum as it is. I have been on many boards, and this by far is one of the best, if not the best, because it is pretty much open. Everyone here seems to agree to disagree without a bunch of crying and whining. I disagreed with empty mag way back when I first joined about shooting a dog or something to that effect. I am moderately disagreeing with Frenchy right now, but, I would still like to swap a gun or two with them at a group shoot, IF I CAN EVER MAKE IT TO ONE. WHy? Because we believe in the same overall big picture. We like our gun rights, believe in them, enjoy shooting, and want to keep that right. Moderators don't overmoderate here, and people get out of the forum what they want, whatever that may be. It would be sad to see it end up like some others that I no longer visit.
Jules

[Emptymag]

The subject of "using the search feature" has been addressed by Frency multiple times now.

Mods, please close this thread.



























Gotcha!

Frenchy, your point is valid to some extent.
Here's what I do... (a) ignore the post. or (b) answer with a brief response and politely suggest that they try using the search feature. (which I think SUCKS beyond belief - I can't even find things that I'VE posted.)

p.s.
Jules, our first "disagreement" was about allergy meds... I still think of it every time I need a refill! LOL!
Everything you said at the bottom of your post is true. and yes, you can "swap a gun or two with me" any time.