Newbie questions

[Riperoo]

OK folks, bunch of real newbie questions, let me give you some background, I litterally grew up in a gunshop in north jersey, my dad was a gunsmith and I was shooting an Ithica saddle 49 22 cal at about age 7,I litterally grew up with guns, and being in the woods of north jersey, we shot a lot, long rifle, pistol, skeet, target ranges, in the woods, on our property in Jersey and NY, shooting woodchuck when I was 10, deer when I was 14, woodcock, duck, goose, you name it, every place that was legal and local. We also had a place in Roscoe NY that was basically a shooters paradise when we weren't in Jersey. Well about 15 years ago i have to move to the suburbs of Philly for a Job transfer, the shooting took a back burner but I still have the guns stashed away, take the pistols to an indoor range every once in a blue moon by myself, but now I have a 10 year old son who has a real strong interest in learning to shoot. I am at a bit of a loss living in suburbia. What do you do?? I don't have open land, I imagine the best thing to do would be to go for some class room training, and then start at an indoor range. Classic pistol in Southampton is in my back yard. I would really appreciate any suggestions on how to proceed. It seemed like such a no brainer when I was kid, my dad passed it on to me, an we shot all over the place, that ain't so easy now adays and I would like nothing better then to pass along one of the greatest sports in the world to my kids. Are there PA ranges where you can just go and plink at? Do I need a carry permit to have guns in my car when transporting to a range? Any and all info apprciated!!! Thanks,

[freeeire1916]

Its kinda nice you had that with your pop. Dont get me wrong; I love my dad but it was hockey on tv and maybe a teeball game. I have a 10 year old boy as well and I just am not ready to get him into shooting yet. I am only a year into it and I dont hunt. For me its stricktly target for stress release.

To answer your question, being a newbie myself, I would getting back into the saddle yourself for a while. I dont know of ANY indoor or out door ranges that allow children so young, but like I said, Im a newbie myself. Im sure someone can correct me if I am wrong. Something tells me private land is the only way you can go

[novice]

Do I need a carry permit to have guns in my car when transporting to a range?

This little part I can answer. You may transport handguns to the range in the car if they are unloaded and the ammo is in a seperate container from the gun. It's one of the exceptions written in the law about where you may transport a handgun without a permit,

However, you better go straight to the range from home and back again--no stop off for Check E Cheese.

It's much better to have a LTCF, then you don't have to worry about restrictions on transporting a handgun.

Long guns, you may transport them if they are unloaded and the ammo is in a seperate container from the gun. The restrictions on handguns don't apply.

[freeeire1916]

If I may expand on the prev post. The ammo must not only be stored in a separate container but in a separate place as well such as the trunk or tool box of a pick up. Dont get pulled over and have the gun and the bullets in the cab with you...especially in Philly

[son of the revolution]

If I may expand on the prev post. The ammo must not only be stored in a separate container but in a separate place as well such as the trunk or tool box of a pick up. Dont get pulled over and have the gun and the bullets in the cab with you...especially in Philly

WRONG !


This issue has been brought up numerous times on the forum. Lets say you have a soft sided rifle case with exterior pockets. Or for a pistol , even just a back pack.

As long as the weapon is stored in one compartment and the ammo is in a SEPERATE compartment of the SAME " bag" you are within the law for transporting. What your talking about is the requirments for NJ, not PA.

Since Im still learning how to find the proper sections of the UFA, hopefully someone will be along shortly to post the relevent portion. IF it turns out Im the one thats made a mistake, I'll gladly retract my post and apologize

[biggs88]

If I may expand on the prev post. The ammo must not only be stored in a separate container but in a separate place as well such as the trunk or tool box of a pick up. Dont get pulled over and have the gun and the bullets in the cab with you...especially in Philly

Could you be a sport and post that PA law please? ? ? ?

[freeeire1916]

No I cant, Im only going off of the information that was provided to my by a member of this website a little over a year ago when I got my first handgun. Its unfortunate that no one was around to correct the information that was given to me then.

If Im not mistaken this website is designed for people to become educated on the laws in theory as well as fact. I appologize for the info if it is incorrect and I thank you for clerifying it. I dont really need to worry since I am LTC. I was just trying to help out, but if you would prefer I certainly dont need to.

My appologies to OP; however, I see that little harm would come my ill information.

I feel really bad now. Instead of being wrong it turns out I am WRONG!

[donm]

The 36-point red type was way over the top, but to get back on topic... Don't assume that you can't take your son to a range. I've taken kids to Targetmaster to shoot. They'll watch you like a hawk until they're convinced that you know what you're doing and that you are safe and won't shoot up the ceiling and walls. Some may have other policies -- I'd call ahead. You might want to check out some of the clubs in your area as well. Some of them are very friendly to new shooters and have programs for kids.

And yes, I'd get a LTCF -- it's a straightforward process here in PA, and makes a lot (though not all by any means) of those nonsensical laws go away.

[ByAnyMeans]

I would look into a beginner safety class or hunter's ED to get your son started and a foundation for the rules.

As far as shooting goes I use different ranges for specific things. If you just want to go and plink with a handgun or rifle I would check for your nearest State Game Land. They have magazine limitations but you cannot beat free for a little trigger time. My SGL is 20 minutes away and has 10/25/50/100 yard backstops. Also check the "range" section here, a member has spent a great deal of time arranging ranges by county so check out what is near you and a description of how they are.

You may want to go once or twice without your son just to refamiliarize yourself with the firearms and have a worry free day when you take your son.


EDIT: There is no age limit by PA law that I am aware of so it would be at the ranges discretion. State Game Land ranges have no limit. There was a young (9-10) boy and girl(7-8) at Tobyhanna on Sat. afternoon ripping it up with a 22lr. with mom.

[marinville]

WRONG !


This issue has been brought up numerous times on the forum. Lets say you have a soft sided rifle case with exterior pockets. Or for a pistol , even just a back pack.

As long as the weapon is stored in one compartment and the ammo is in a SEPERATE compartment of the SAME " bag" you are within the law for transporting. What your talking about is the requirments for NJ, not PA.

Since Im still learning how to find the proper sections of the UFA, hopefully someone will be along shortly to post the relevent portion. IF it turns out Im the one thats made a mistake, I'll gladly retract my post and apologize

Here you go:

§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who
carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a
firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place
of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and
lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony
of the third degree.
(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a
valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any
vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or
about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place
of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and
has not committed any other criminal violation commits a
misdemeanor of the first degree.
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not
apply to:
(1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or
their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its
political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
(2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force
or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard
or organized reserves when on duty.
(3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization
duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the
United States or from this Commonwealth.
(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a
firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their
places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to
or from their places of assembly or target practice, the
firearm is not loaded.
(5) Officers or employees of the United States duly
authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
(6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common
carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them
to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the
discharge of such duties.
(7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing,
repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or
representative of any such person, having in his possession,
using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course
of such business.
(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not
loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase
to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair,
sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business,
or in moving from one place of abode or business to another
or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or
dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section
6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a
place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use
or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which
the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23
Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of
the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of
business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.2
(relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful
transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the
relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping
pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment
to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the
relinquished firearm.
(9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in
this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting,
taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or
are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take
furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
(10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually
training dogs during the regular training season.
(11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle,
which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license
for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the
United States or any other state.
(12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry
a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and
that said license expired within six months prior to the date
of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for
renewal of the license.
(13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a
firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor
vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name
of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which
a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to
the spouse or parent owning the firearm.
(14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate
transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C. §
921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18
U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of
firearms).
(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully
issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been
issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether
a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and
the state under section 6109(k), provided:
(i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for
individuals licensed to carry firearms under section
6109.
(ii) The Attorney General has determined that the
firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws
of this Commonwealth.
(c) Sportsman's firearm permit.--
(1) Before any exception shall be granted under
paragraph (b)(9) or (10) of this section to any person 18
years of age or older licensed to hunt, trap or fish or who
has been issued a permit relating to hunting dogs, such
person shall, at the time of securing his hunting, furtaking
or fishing license or any time after such license has been
issued, secure a sportsman's firearm permit from the county
treasurer. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be issued
immediately and be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a
period of five years from the date of issue for any legal
firearm, when carried in conjunction with a valid hunting,
furtaking or fishing license or permit relating to hunting
dogs. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be in triplicate
on a form to be furnished by the Pennsylvania State Police.
The original permit shall be delivered to the person, and the
first copy thereof, within seven days, shall be forwarded to
the Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police by the
county treasurer. The second copy shall be retained by the
county treasurer for a period of two years from the date of
expiration. The county treasurer shall be entitled to collect
a fee of not more than $6 for each such permit issued, which
shall include the cost of any official form. The Pennsylvania
State Police may recover from the county treasurer the cost
of any such form, but may not charge more than $1 for each
official permit form furnished to the county treasurer.
(2) Any person who sells or attempts to sell a
sportsman's firearm permit for a fee in excess of that amount
fixed under this subsection commits a summary offense.
(d) Revocation of registration.--Any registration of a
firearm under subsection (c) of this section may be revoked by
the county treasurer who issued it, upon written notice to the
holder thereof.
(e) Definitions.--
(1) For purposes of subsection (b)(3), (4), (5), (7) and
(8), the term "firearm" shall include any weapon which is
designed to or may readily be converted to expel any
projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or
receiver of the weapon.
(2) As used in this section, the phrase "place of
instruction" shall include any hunting club, rifle club,
rifle range, pistol range, shooting range, the premises of a
licensed firearms dealer or a lawful gun show or meet.

§ 6102. Definitions.
Subject to additional definitions contained in subsequent
provisions of this subchapter which are applicable to specific
provisions of this subchapter, the following words and phrases,
when used in this subchapter shall have, unless the context
clearly indicates otherwise, the meanings given to them in this
section:
"Commissioner." The Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State
Police.
"Commonwealth Photo Imaging Network." The computer network
administered by the Commonwealth and used to record and store
digital photographs of an individual's face and any scars,
marks, tattoos or other unique features of the individual.
"Conviction." A conviction, a finding of guilty or the
entering of a plea of guilty or nolo contendere, whether or not
judgment of sentence has been imposed, as determined by the law
of the jurisdiction in which the prosecution was held. The term
does not include a conviction which has been expunged or
overturned or for which an individual has been pardoned unless
the pardon expressly provides that the individual may not
possess or transport firearms.
"County treasurer." The county treasurer or, in home rule or
optional plan counties, the person whose duties encompass those
of a county treasurer.
"Crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year." The
term does not include any of the following:
(1) Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust,
unfair trade practices, restraints on trade or regulation of
business.
(2) State offenses classified as misdemeanors and
punishable by a term of imprisonment not to exceed two years.
"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less
than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18
inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or
any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of
less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be
determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the
face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is
applicable.
"Fund." The Firearm Ownership Fund established in section
6111.3 (relating to Firearm Ownership Fund).
"Law enforcement officer." Any person employed by any police
department or organization of the Commonwealth or political
subdivision thereof who is empowered to effect an arrest with or
without warrant and who is authorized to carry a firearm in the
performance of that person's duties.
"Loaded." A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the
nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the
chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being
fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable
magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in
said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has
been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or,
where the container has multiple compartments, the same
compartment thereof as the firearm.
"Pennsylvania Sheriffs' Association." The State association
of sheriffs authorized by the act of June 14, 1923 (P.L.774,
No.305), entitled "An act authorizing the sheriffs of the
several counties of this Commonwealth to organize themselves
into a State Association, for the purpose of holding annual
meetings, to secure more uniformity and cooperation in the
conduct of their offices, and providing for the payment of
certain expenses in connection with such meetings by the various
counties."
"Safekeeping permit." As defined in 23 Pa.C.S. § 6102
(relating to definitions).
"Sheriff."
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the sheriff of
the county.
(2) In a city of the first class, the chief or head of
the police department.
"State." When used in reference to different parts of the
United States, includes the District of Columbia, the
Commonwealth of Puerto Rico and territories and possessions of
the United States.