Moral Dilemma concerning LTCF

[jshwak]

I need your help PAFOA brethren !!

My brother in law is going to apply for an LTCF, and told me that he was going to put me down as a reference. The problem is that:

A: He should not be allowed within 10 feet of any firearm; his temperament does not suite owning a gun, he is way to hot-headed and cannot control himself. I can guarantee that he will hurt somebody else or himself.
no self control + irresponsibility + tough guy attitude = imminent danger !!


B: I feel as though I cannot willfully allow him to endanger himself or others. If he puts me down as a reference, what should I say?

Talk about being put in the middle of a bad situation, if he found out that I gave him a bad reference; there would be serious family related repercussions. But I feel like it is my civil duty to somehow stop this.

Any suggestions on a way to handle this ?? I'm lost

[Philbert]

I need your help PAFOA brethren !!

My brother in law is going to apply for an LTCF, and told me that he was going to put me down as a reference. The problem is that:

A: He should not be allowed within 10 feet of any firearm; his temperament does not suite owning a gun, he is way to hot-headed and cannot control himself. I can guarantee that he will hurt somebody else or himself.
no self control + irresponsibility + tough guy attitude = imminent danger !!


B: I feel as though I cannot willfully allow him to endanger himself or others. If he puts me down as a reference, what should I say?

Talk about being put in the middle of a bad situation, if he found out that I gave him a bad reference; there would be serious family related repercussions. But I feel like it is my civil duty to somehow stop this.

Any suggestions on a way to handle this ?? I'm lost

You aren't supposed to use family members as references. It says so right on the LTCF application. I'm not 100% sure how family is defined but I think you might have an out there.

Beyond that, it's a tough call. If someone asked me for a job reference, I would tell them up front if I could not provide a good reference. I would probably take the same approach with an LTCF. It may be moot since many counties don't call to check references anyway.

Thinking longer term, if I couldn't trust a guy with a firearm, I wouldn't trust him with my sister. Something to think about, if you haven't already. ETA: (see below) The OP married into the family, not the other way around (my bad).

[NY Refugee]

What a spot to be in.

A. Tell him he can not use you as you are family and you need non-family references
B. Make suggestions of people he would be better of using
C. Talk to other relatives to intervene, if the feel the same about him as you do
D. If all else fails be honest, at the end of the day you are one who has to look at your self in the mirror.


Good Luck

[jshwak]

You aren't supposed to use family members as references. It says so right on the LTCF application. I'm not 100% sure how family is defined but I think you might have an out there.

Beyond that, it's a tough call. If someone asked me for a job reference, I would tell them up front if I could not provide a good reference. I would probably take the same approach with an LTCF.

Thinking longer term, if I couldn't trust a guy with a firearm, I wouldn't trust him with my sister. Something to think about, if you haven't already.

LOL.. I married his sister

[Philbert]

LOL.. I married his sister

Oops, well that's one less complication at least

[USMCRich82]

Does the brother in law already own a gun that maybe you don't know about? The mere fact that he wants to get his LTCF does not mean that doesn't own any firearms.

He might also someday figure out that he doesn't need an LTCF to carry openly on foot outside of Philly. So the LTCF is not the main point of your argument.

Your question should be: How can we be sure that he does not own any firearms to begin with? Because if he can pass a PICS check, there's not much (save for a PFA) that you personally can do to stop him from owning anything...

[jshwak]

Does the brother in law already own a gun that maybe you don't know about? The mere fact that he wants to get his LTCF does not mean that doesn't own any firearms.

He might also someday figure out that he doesn't need an LTCF to carry openly on foot outside of Philly. So the LTCF is not the main point of your argument.

Your question should be: How can we be sure that he does not own any firearms to begin with? Because if he can pass a PICS check, there's not much (save for a PFA) that you personally can do to stop him from owning anything...

No, he currently does not own a firearm (except a hunting rifle) but he will be purchasing one soon. I think my hands are pretty much tied at this point..

[knight0334]

Bedford County might not call references. If you do happen to get called, well maybe you should tell the truth as to how you feel. Be sure to ask the Sheriff or Deputy to keep your conversation in confidence due to such familiarities with the applicant.

A question though, has he tried to harm another person with or without a gun?

[jshwak]

Bedford County might not call references. If you do happen to get called, well maybe you should tell the truth as to how you feel. Be sure to ask the Sheriff or Deputy to keep your conversation in confidence due to such familiarities with the applicant.

A question though, has he tried to harm another person with or without a gun?

Having known him for approximately 10 years now, I can think of numerous times where he has threatened to harm others, and has engaged the use of a knife as a means of threatening others. This is not on file though, he has no criminal history. He is the perfect example of the type of person who should by no means ever ever ever own a gun! or even a fork..


To put it another way: There is no "brandishing" law in Pa, but by the time he's done.. they'll reconsider !

[uniballin]

My friend's roommate just got his LTCF. So far the roommate has drawn on my friend TWICE and said something along the lines of "what now, bitch'" during a heated argument.

I know that the last argument was about whose turn it was to clean the bathroom, lol.

I told my friend to call the police but he won't for some reason. The lease ends in a month though.