Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Apr 2010
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Explanation of Pennsylvania Gun Records

    Hi All,

    I'm new to Pennsylvania so I'd really appreciate your explanation of a couple things. I moved to Pennsylvania about 6 months ago and bought a handgun and a 16" rifle.

    I know that Pennsylvania doesn't require firearm "registration," but I was wondering what this really means and what agencies and government bodies know that I possess firearms?

    I got a Pennsylvania State Police Application/Record of Sale for my handgun - What is this for? It sounds like registration to me.

    Also, I got no documentation for my rifle when I bought it from my FFL. Does that mean that no agency or government entity knows that I have the rifle? I felt a little uncomfortable not getting any sort of proof that I had purchased the rifle legally, while I got the Application/Record of Sale for my handgun.

    I'm confused because I had to fill out ATF form 4473 for both the handgun and rifle. I'm assuming the ATF has records of the guns I've bought?

    I'm just incredibly confused about who has what information, at both the state level and federal level, especially because Pennsylvania doesn't require "registration" of guns.

    I'd really appreciate you filling a newbie in on this.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by 6.8Shooter; April 4th, 2010 at 03:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Elkland, Pennsylvania
    (Tioga County)
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    Default Re: Explanation of Pennsylvania Gun Records

    The PA supreme court ruled the sales record the PSP keeps via the sales records is incomplete thus not a registry. but the leo types treat it as one.

    You should have received a copy of the 4473 with the rifle. Unless the ATF or someone hits up the FFL you bought the rifle from. Nobody knows you have it except everyone that reads this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6.8Shooter View Post
    Hi All,

    I'm new to Pennsylvania so I'd really appreciate your explanation of a couple things. I moved to Pennsylvania about 6 months ago and bought a handgun and a 16" rifle.

    I know that Pennsylvania doesn't require firearm "registration," but I was wondering what this really means and what agencies and government bodies know that I possess firearms?

    I got a Pennsylvania State Police Application/Record of Sale for my handgun - What is this for? It sounds like registration to me.

    Also, I got no documentation for my rifle when I bought it from my FFL. Does that mean that no agency or government entity knows that I have the rifle? I felt a little uncomfortable not getting any sort of proof that I had purchased the rifle legally, while I got the Application/Record of Sale for my handgun.

    I'm confused because I had to fill out ATF form 4473 for both the handgun and rifle. I'm assuming the ATF has records of the guns I've bought?

    I'm just incredibly confused about who has what information, at both the state level and federal level, especially because Pennsylvania doesn't require "registration" of guns.

    I'd really appreciate you filling a newbie in on this.

    Thanks!
    USNRET '61-'81

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lebanon, Pennsylvania
    (Lebanon County)
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    Default Re: Explanation of Pennsylvania Gun Records

    you will never get a 4473 copy when you buy a longgun in PA..

  4. #4
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    Mar 2008
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    Crivitz, Wisconsin
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    Default Re: Explanation of Pennsylvania Gun Records

    Though there is no official registration in PA there is a lost or stolen database. It seems to be not unusual for police to use this to confirm your firearm is not stolen. They may confiscate your gun to run the numbers and for "officer safety" during an encounter. A lot of debate on this issue around here, you'll want to read up on this and see how you want to stand should it occur to you. But as we all know, someone somewhere has the ability to know what you own if done through an FFL. Long guns bought in a private transaction do not have to be done with any paperwork so any trail may become lean, but they can know where it was and can follow it should they choose to. It's a complicated issue and has led to some heated debates here. Sometimes the police engage in an illegal activity in disarming you and checking numbers. How you want to handle it is a matter of reading up on this issue. But the gist of it is you don't have to prove it's yours, any more than you have to prove you own a pack of gum.
    When the SHTF......be the fan.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
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    Default Re: Explanation of Pennsylvania Gun Records

    You do not need proof of either handgun or longgun. You get a copy of the PSP form for handguns. The State Police maintains a record of the properly transferred handguns. That record is supposed to be purged after so long once its been established you are not prohibited, but they dont in defiance of the law and courts.

    A longgun is treated like any other piece of personal property after the FFL sells it, like say golf clubs, wide screen TV, washing machine, jewelry, etc.. There is NO need to prove anything.

    This isn't Washington DC, NJ, NY, HI, CA or any other goofy place that makes it a point to know who owns what guns.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Explanation of Pennsylvania Gun Records

    Doh.....

    Sorry, forgot to welcome you to Pennsyvania! We may not be the land of the truly free, but were closer than most and aiming for more.

    Read up on the gun laws, get your LTCF, figure out where you stand on the issues and help us get the laws a bit saner, the authorities a bit less wanton and the masses a bit more educated.
    When the SHTF......be the fan.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Effort, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: Explanation of Pennsylvania Gun Records

    Quote Originally Posted by ErSwnn View Post
    Though there is no official registration in PA there is a lost or stolen database.

    That's what they said back in the days before the instant check system went online (July 1, 1998), before that they used to fill out "record of sale" forms for all purchases. These forms were the size of a medium index card and at one point they were send to the Sheriffs office and then the PSP and were supposed to be destroyed after a certian period of time. They denied it back then just like they do today.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Explanation of Pennsylvania Gun Records

    Thank you all for being so welcoming and for taking the time to explain these issues to me.

    I'm from New York, so being able to own handguns and rifles so easily is a dream come true (as well as the way it should be).

    Looking forward to getting to know this state's laws better. I'm already a fan of PA.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: Explanation of Pennsylvania Gun Records

    Quote Originally Posted by 6.8Shooter View Post
    Thank you all for being so welcoming and for taking the time to explain these issues to me.

    I'm from New York, so being able to own handguns and rifles so easily is a dream come true (as well as the way it should be).

    Looking forward to getting to know this state's laws better. I'm already a fan of PA.
    Here is a list of important stuff for new members to go through. Read through these links and it will help you tremendously. :

    Members, please use the correct forums

    Best single source of firearm information here

    Where you can and can't carry

    The U.F.A. (Pa. firearm related laws) Sections are also available in our reference library, the link to which is located at the top of each page here..

    Common acronyms

    Forum rules

    How rules are enforced here

    Reputation points guide

    How to report a post

    Rules for classified section posts

    Open Carry primer

    I hope this list helps make it easier for you to figure out what questions to ask and makes your time here more enjoyable

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty
    than to those attending too small a degree of it."~Thomas Jefferson, 1791
    Hobson fundraiser Remember SFN Read before you Open Carry

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Barsoom, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Explanation of Pennsylvania Gun Records

    Quote Originally Posted by 6.8Shooter View Post
    little uncomfortable not getting any sort of proof that I had purchased the rifle legally, while I got the Application/Record of Sale for my handgun.
    Don't you have the receipt from the gun shop?

    I'm confused because I had to fill out ATF form 4473 for both the handgun and rifle. I'm assuming the ATF has records of the guns I've bought?
    Most people do not understand the 4473. It is not registration, it's merely a record for the dealer and statement on your part that you are not a prohibited person. ATF only gets the 4473s if the gun shop goes out of business. They are the property of the dealer. For the police to take them, they need a court order, even ATF can't take them without a court order. However, they can make copies at their expense.

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