Overcharged for LTCF? It's time to act (Updates Page 23)

[knight0334]

The law is the law. Voluntary or not.
They CANNOT charge over $25.

They could offer a solid 24Kgold card engraved with your name and photo for an extra fee. If it is being sold as a LTCF, they can't charge more than $25 for it.

The paper ones are presently your actual license to carry firearms. They are the one that the PSP has designed, officially endorsed, and produce for issuance(your sheriff gets them from the PSP in triplicate). The plastics ones are NOT your LTCF, but rather an optional representation of your license. If your county chooses to issue the plastic ones as an upgrade at a additional cost it is not foul of the law so long as they still have the official paper license at $25. Now if the county only offers the plastic card, it can in no means charge more than $25 for it.

[IronSight]

The plastics ones are NOT your LTCF, but rather an optional representation of your license.

I want what your smoking.


Bucks county website, and I quote;

Fee for a license to carry is $46.00.

http://www.buckscounty.org/governmen...onsPermit.aspx

[knight0334]

I want what your smoking.


Bucks county website, and I quote;



http://www.buckscounty.org/governmen...onsPermit.aspx

Camel Wides Lights..

I realize some of the counties are charging more than the statutory rate, but what I said IS true. Even from that site above, the upgrade is $21 for the plastic card. Their paper, which is the actual license, is still $25.

Sheriff's get the paper licenses from the state police, those are the actual license. They are in triplicate; original goes to the bearer(unless you opt for plastic), a copy goes to the PSP, and the 3rd is retained by the sheriff.

[IronSight]

Camel Wides Lights..

touché (10 Char)

[kx90]

Camel Wides Lights..

I realize some of the counties are charging more than the statutory rate, but what I said IS true. Even from that site above, the upgrade is $21 for the plastic card. Their paper, which is the actual license, is still $25.

Sheriff's get the paper licenses from the state police, those are the actual license. They are in triplicate; original goes to the bearer(unless you opt for plastic), a copy goes to the PSP, and the 3rd is retained by the sheriff.

What is this "opt" bullshit you speak of?

The last time I was in for my renewal (Dec. 2007) over here in Levittown, Bucks County I paid the $46 fee because that is what the clerk told me it costs. When I said 5 years ago it was only $19 why the increase she said they actually take a picture now and issue a laminated DL-like card instead of copying the DL photo and pasting that on the flimsy paper LCTF.

And honestly I have no problems whatsoever paying $42 for a nice LTCF card for 5 years. That equates to seventy cents per month or two cents a day for 5 years (including one day extra for a leap year ).

Now sure if they were still only offering the flimsy see-through paper LTCFs then it better be no more than $20. Or if they keep raising the cost each year because they feel like it then that is messed up.

[Bruce]

As far as the LTCF fees go, IronSight is right on the money here (pardon the pun).

I am a lousy bookkeeper - it's almost as bad as my housekeeping!

So, yeah - the only one who might have a clue where my receipts from the Sheriffs offices who issued my LTCF and it's 'renewal' would likely be (if they still exist) is my cat; and she ain't talkin'.

I *hate* when people say: "choose your battles wisely" (and variations thereof) when there is a legitimate grievance presented and a realistic way to petition it.

Constitution of the United States of America:

Amendment 1:

Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the [...] right of the people [...] to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

re*dress [noun]:

1. the setting right of what is wrong: redress of abuses.
2. relief from wrong or injury.
3. compensation or satisfaction for a wrong or injury.

When the poo the government is shoveling on you outright stinks, you have the Right (the Civic Duty, IMHO) to not only complain about it (especially to them) - but to get it fixed!

If my organizational skills were worth a whit, well... let's just say: there'd be a whole lotta "petitioning" going on!

Whenever, wherever and however 'the government' (et al) steps out of line, that *is* the "battle" that each and every citizen should "pick" - each and every time! Anyone who tells you otherwise is either, well - part of the government them self or they are "afraid" of the government. ...No honest, law-abiding American citizen should *ever* be afraid of the government!

Bravo, IronSight!
.

[Grinnen13]

I'm in Lawrence County. Got mine in plastic, with a picture on it, and still only paid $25.

If I HAD been overcharged, I would have written letters. So I suggest that no matter how much a run-around you get from your local sheriff's office about it, pursue it, because they can't charge you more than $25,

there's no "We're lazy and doing the job right is a pain in the ass, and money motivates us so we charge you more than we're allowed to!"
in the statute if I recall correctly. Don't let them walk on people, because they too are people, badge or not.

[Kurt_D]

In Delaware County, this is on the cover sheet for the "Gun Permit" (yes, that's what they call it) application (quoted and image attached):

7. PLEASE BRING $46.00 IN CASH OR MONEY ORDER. SHERIFF'S OFFICE CANNOT ACCEPT CHECKS.

YOU WILL BE NOTIFIED BY MAIL WITHIN FORTY-FIVE (45) WORKING DAYS AS TO YOUR APPROVAL OR DENIAL.

Color highlighting is theirs, bold, underline, italics is mine. Mine is up for renewal in about 8 months.

Link to the DELCO sheriff's LTCF page: http://www.co.delaware.pa.us/sheriff/weapons.html

[jtsao]

Hey guys, I think your making progress. Just came from the Sheriff's office and they said the paper LTCF is fine, that's a twenty five dollar fee and I have to bring in my own picture. The lady was very respectful about it and even went as far as tracing the picture box to show me how big the picture had to be. I didn't expect them to be that easy going about not getting the $46 permit but I was also in uniform so that might've helped. She just asked me how I heard about the paper permit because they were doing a survey (?? her words). But, of course, I told her the forums for PAFOA and that was all. I just need a picture, I was going to get a passport picture but that's $10 at CVS, which nearly defeats the purpose of the paper permit so I was going to try taking one of my facebook pictures, cutting myself out and putting it on a white background in Paint and taking it to CVS on a memory card and printing out the 2x3 size. Then I'd just have to cut the excess which will cost $25.26 for picture and permit.

[IronSight]

Hey guys, I think your making progress. Just came from the Sheriff's office and they said the paper LTCF is fine, that's a twenty five dollar fee and I have to bring in my own picture. The lady was very respectful about it and even went as far as tracing the picture box to show me how big the picture had to be. I didn't expect them to be that easy going about not getting the $46 permit but I was also in uniform so that might've helped. She just asked me how I heard about the paper permit because they were doing a survey (?? her words). But, of course, I told her the forums for PAFOA and that was all. I just need a picture, I was going to get a passport picture but that's $10 at CVS, which nearly defeats the purpose of the paper permit so I was going to try taking one of my facebook pictures, cutting myself out and putting it on a white background in Paint and taking it to CVS on a memory card and printing out the 2x3 size. Then I'd just have to cut the excess which will cost $25.26 for picture and permit.

While it's good to hear that you are able to get the paper license without any hassle, the fact that their office is surprised when someone hears about the correct amount/format for the license is outrageous.

The sheriff's have been getting away with the overcharges and extra requirements for years, to the point where in some counties it's unheard of for someone to actually have paid the correct amount. The majority of the counties throughout this state are in violation of the law. According to my research and calculations, the average cost of a license to carry a firearm is $28, or $3 above the legal limit.

Based on the work being done, I do expect to see progress on this issue, even with the $5 fee set to expire soon.

The detailed report I'm working on right now will be made available to everyone once it's completed, and I'll be posting a sample section of the report soon enough for people to see.