What's the deal with Ohio?

[Deanimator]

The poster you quoted lives in Ohio according to his location. I believe he was addressing Ohio law with that statement.

You are correct.

1. I have an Ohio CHL.
2. The thread is SPECIFICALLY about Ohio CCW.
3. The comments made referred SPECIFICALLY to Ohio law on recordings.
4. Those comments are widely acknowledged as correct, including by my attorney.
5. If you have other specific questions regarding Ohio firearms law (including recording of encounters with LEOs and others) feel free to post them on the Ohioans for Concealed Carry Forums .

[Corn Flake]

No. But you do need to have a license/permit from your home state, if they issue them (IL, WI, and VT get a pass on that one).

That's the catch-22 for NJ residents. Since they live in a 'may issue' state, they have to have a NJ permit before applying for PA's. The reality is that no one in NJ gets a permit, unless you're a politician or belong to the mob, so it is impossible for a NJ resident to get a PA non-resident permit. At least the good news is that Utah and FL work pretty good.

[shermdo]

Entry contrary to signage is trespassing in PA.

I am NOT a lawyer but IMO this is absolutely NOT correct. Signage in PA has zero force of law. If you are asked to leave a business or private property then you must do so ASAP or you can and probably will be arrested for trespassing but signage has NOTHING to do with it at all.

Please correct me if I am mistaken. I jumped in only because what I believe to be a totally incorrect statement about PA law has been stated twice in this short thread and misinform people. I am not trying to be an ass.

[Chazman321]

I feel the same way, I live a whole 4 miles from the Ohio line... I wish they would issue non-resident permits/licenses... lol

-Chaz

[unloved]

I am NOT a lawyer but IMO this is absolutely NOT correct. Signage in PA has zero force of law. If you are asked to leave a business or private property then you must do so ASAP or you can and probably will be arrested for trespassing but signage has NOTHING to do with it at all.

Please correct me if I am mistaken. I jumped in only because what I believe to be a totally incorrect statement about PA law has been stated twice in this short thread and misinform people. I am not trying to be an ass.

You are mistaken. If a property owner posts signage that spells out conditions for your entry onto their property, and you violate those conditions, you are trespassing. The signage serves as notice that, for example, weapons are not permitted on the property. If you carry weapons onto the property anyway, you are trespassing. If there is no signage, you have not been notified of any conditions for entry, so you are not trespassing unless, or until, someone informs you of such conditions.

[tl_3237]

I am NOT a lawyer but IMO this is absolutely NOT correct. Signage in PA has zero force of law. If you are asked to leave a business or private property then you must do so ASAP or you can and probably will be arrested for trespassing but signage has NOTHING to do with it at all.

Please correct me if I am mistaken. I jumped in only because what I believe to be a totally incorrect statement about PA law has been stated twice in this short thread and misinform people. I am not trying to be an ass.

In case you didn't read the previously posted links, I'll again quote from GunLawyer001 - who IS A well respected PA LAWYER here:

snip...

Here's the way the law works: if Costco bans guns on their premises (which they do), but they don't post signs at the door, then all they can do is ask you to leave once they see that you have a gun. If you refuse to leave, then it's defiant trespass, a criminal offense. If they post a clearly-visible "no guns" sign at the door and you come in with a gun, then you are trespassing even before they confront you.

... snip

On what do you base your opinion?

[Corn Flake]

So, it's illegal to defy the sign. Now, has anyone been successfully prosecuted for trespassing based on the sign alone, without being asked to leave first? Has anyone even been arrested for trespassing based on the sign alone? I'm trying to do a risk vs. benefit assessment here.

[Willis]

Ignoring a clearly posted sign is a summary offense (like a traffic violation).

Ignoring a verbal order to leave is a 3rd Degree Misdemeanor.

See 18 Pa. C.S. 3503(b).

" ..... (b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to exclude intruders;
(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention at each entrance of school grounds that visitors are prohibited without authorization from a designated school, center or program official; or
(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave school grounds as communicated by a school, center or program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement officer.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v) constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it is a summary offense. " Emphasis added

Summary citation cases are tried by Magisterial District Judges, and can be appealed for trial de novo to the Common Pleas Court. There is no right to trial by jury in summary cases. There IS a right to preliminary hearing and trial by jury in most M3 cases.

The bottom line: defying a verbal order to leave is more serious (in my opinion, far more serious) than ignoring a posted sign.

[tl_3237]

Corn Flake:

For your risk analysis:

Penalty for defiant trespass (vis-a-vis entry contrary to signage) has a maximum penalty of 90 days and/or $300.

I'll leave it up to you to determine the probability of:

1. being discovered;
2. being cited when discovered;
3. being convicted when cited;
4. given portion of penalty assessed by court.

[dennisbuckeye]

I live in Ohio and am wanting to get a PA CCL and Have been monitoring your site and also joined the Ohio cc site. I am told a lot of Lawyer types answer questions on this ohio site. Ohios class is a 12 hour class on NRA gun handling. We covered the booklet by the State of Ohio like you heard of. Two hours is actual gun shooting and or range time. A lot of questions and concerns are talked about. We travel to PA and your state seems better. I believe the State house is talking today about upgrading our laws for cc in restaurants if you don't drink. I am new at this and have learned more info on your site and fellow cc member friends. I am trying to figure out what type of gun to carry that I can secure easy and retrieve easy. I can't bring it on my work site or vehicle secured. I have to park next door with permission. That just sends a signal to coworkers to ask questions. If I can get info or find out things for you I will be happy to try.