Had a sit-down with the Chief of Lansdale Police

[K.C.]

The only thing different I
would have done was being prepared to produce the factual training info
and UFA for them to review. Then let the chips fall where they lay.

Yeah, if your going to war you have to make sure you have plenty of arrows in your quiver,or in this case bullets in your magazine. Over all though I applaud the OP for his determination. Next round will be be much more fruitful if he decides to move forward with tons of incontrovertible facts .

[AxiTech]

I really do want to say you did a good job, however, you entered 'losing territory' the minute they disarmed you. They had no right to disarm you, or even to ask you to disarm. They did it for one reason only: To show you who was the master and is the servant. You lost the minute you disarmed. Everything after that point was just them laughing at you and trampling your rights.
Sorry, I want to tell you I think you did good, I really do, but you lost today! We all lost today!

[ungawa]

Please explain to me how you expect someone who is specifically trying NOT to piss off the police to effectively correct the chief of said police without it turning into an argument, since everyone here knows for a fact that no matter what a private citizen says, the chief will not admit to being wrong?

All that turns into is an argument, then a shouting match, then being kicked out of the building and having the chief specifically want to make YOUR life suck from then on. And nothing is learned!

Your tone has changed. Now it sounds like you had no expectations but wasting your time. Why did you go in the first place?

It sounds like it was an amicable discussion and if you were better prepared you could have educated them - or at least put doubt in their mind about their preconceptions. I would have, at a minimum, brought the UFA and about 6 pages of the MOEPCT TRAINING THEY HAD LAST YEAR with highlighted portions on those 6 pages.

Please understand, I am NOT criticizing you for your preparation going in there. It took balls, and you did a very good thing. And you just might have made a difference going in there and taking them to task and making them uncertain about their actions. I am criticizing you for defending yourself after the fact by explaining that additional preparation and your bother to go there in the first place are all a waste of time.

The Chief actually challenged you for documentation of your claims.

[anonymouse]

Viper, you probably didnt know, or missed it in the stickies, but it MAY not be to late.......................

You should have taken a copy of the State Supreme Court in the case Commonwealth v Ortiz. ( Someone will correct me if Im citing the wrong case)

In that written decision, the Justices went to very specific and clear language that a MWAG called in tip to police was NOT sufficient for the responding officers to do ANYTHING OTHER THEN OBSERVE the individual that was reported to see if they developed RAS before they could initiate anything other then a "mere encounter " with the citizen in question. That the mere open carrying a firearm, in and of itself, without any other supporting information or the officers actually witnessing something themselves was NOT enough.

I think you're thinking of Commonwealth v. Hawkins.

Why did you have to surrender your weapon, by the way?

[gnbrotz]

I wonder if that works both ways

It does not. LEO in the performance of their duties are exempt from the wiretapping laws, with the caveat that a warrant must be obtained in order to lawfully intercept certain methods of communication.

[Elmar]

I swear there is case law in PA stating that there is a public service expemption in recording police officers performing their duty.

[normanvin]

I really do want to say you did a good job, however, you entered 'losing territory' the minute they disarmed you. They had no right to disarm you, or even to ask you to disarm. They did it for one reason only: To show you who was the master and is the servant. You lost the minute you disarmed. Everything after that point was just them laughing at you and trampling your rights.
Sorry, I want to tell you I think you did good, I really do, but you lost today! We all lost today!

I tend to agree with Axitech, on this one.

[gooseSA40]

The chief told me that the officer who stopped me was upset over the fact that I was trying to record him while it's an illegal act.

FAIL!! PA v. Agnew and PA v. Henlen

Chief: "No, do you have a concealed weapons permit?"

Me: "I have a license to carry firearms; it's not a permit."

Chief: "What do you mean, you have a 'license'?"

I showed him my license and pointed out that nowhere on the card does it say permit, and he read the top line where it spells out LTCF. He said he was surprised to see that "it had changed, that's not what he's used to seeing" and asked the Sergeant if he'd seen it recently.

FAIL AGAIN!

I found myself becoming very frustrated at what your local PD had to say. Overall, the choice to speak with them was probably the best for any future encounters. I think a letter to the Chief of Police from an attorney regarding the case law of recording police would be a great idea.

[ViperGTS19801]

I think you're thinking of Commonwealth v. Hawkins.

Why did you have to surrender your weapon, by the way?

The Sergeant told me that they "do not allow citizens with weapons anywhere but the lobby of the police station."

Is the police station in it's entirely considered public property? Or is it "private property" as owned by the government?

I'm going to do some more research and try to formulate a letter that I can send to the Chief as a follow up. I feel that sending a letter will be significantly more cut and dry, since the recipient can't argue other than just sending a reply letter.

I think a letter to the Chief of Police from an attorney regarding the case law of recording police would be a great idea.

Any of the folks here that practice law wanna take this one up in addition to my letter?

[kadar]

I swear there is case law in PA stating that there is a public service expemption in recording police officers performing their duty.

Robinson v Fetterman et al, is close one but was not under the wiretap laws.
http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documen...s/05D0847P.pdf