AK 47 Recoil echoing through stock?

[JP8]

I have a great idea. Why don't you just ask nicely if you don't understand. If my description leaves a bit to be desired, so do your social skills. It wasn't a tutorial. And with basic common sense applied to the situation there is about only one way an existing hole could get tapped for a set screw, and regulate gas by orifice size.

The screw was tapped directly into the hole in the gas block the gas comes out of the barrel from. Then an Allen head set screw was installed. This set screw was drilled through, to allow gas to pass through it. But less than the original hole in the gas block. Effectively reducing the amount of gas acting on the piston. Like a nitrous or carbeurator jet.

Dude, I wasn't trying to be rude, I just didn't understand your description. Did you ever remove the block from the barrel? BTW, a set-screw with a hole drilled through it bears no resemblance to a carb jet.

[Asmodeus6]

Let's recap your history in my thread.

Asmodeus6, I've been thinking about this for 20 minutes now. Based on what you said and did, the only thing I can think of is the hole in the barrel that's supplying the gas tube is a large irregular shape (an ellipse?). That might explain why the problem gets significantly worse as the firearm heats up....the hole is just getting more irregularly larger allowing too much gas into the recharge system.

Throwing shells 35 feet is a sign of way too much pressure or a flacid spring. The fact that the rifle recharges though is proof positive that the spring is working.

Take the gas tube off and shine a light in the block. Look down the barrel and see what the gas hole looks like.

Being that it's a Romanian, who knows what they used. They might have been using a step-bit and went too deep leaving only a thin piece of flashing to serve as a hole. That would be the correct diameter cold, but upon operating temperature would change things drastically.

I would advise you not to fire this rifle anymore until you figure out the problem.

Don't shoot the rifle... right...

Glad to see you figured it out

Sarcastic asshole comment.

I'm kinda confused as to what you did. Where in the gas block did you put this screw? I'm lost. Post a pic if you can because your verbal description leaves a lot to be desired.

The apparent lack of social skills continues...

Dude, I wasn't trying to be rude, I just didn't understand your description. Did you ever remove the block from the barrel? BTW, a set-screw with a hole drilled through it bears no resemblance to a carb jet.

You didn't leave a whole lot of "guess work" in how to interpret your posts. And since what I did could basically only happen one way, and even people who have never even looked at their gas block before understood what I meant... I just assumed it was more of the same "super fun comments from Jup06".

Anyway...

"Like" meaning reduces the orifice size LIKE a nitrous jet does/can. Because you can get them in different orifice sizes... Not that it looks the same.

Yes I removed the gas block from the barrel. I broke a tap off in the first one (bad tap) and I cut it off and installed a new Romanian gas block. Which also had the same ID gas hole. Which I then tapped (on the rifle) and installed a set screw with a small hole in it.

Which solved the problem, and then some.

[YBNORMAL]

Glad you got things worked out, I do have some questions though.

As for the gas system question, the AK gas system isn't designed to be adjustable, however, if the port is dirty or clogged the rifle would transfer a lot more recoil through the stock rather than absorbing it in the spring. This is unlikely if you clean regularly, but not entirely impossible. I would think you'd be noticing problems with weak ejection or improper feeding if that were the problem.
.

This post makes alot of sense to me since with a clogged hole, less gas will be available to cycle the action (and in turn absorb the felt recoil).

If a gas system weren't functioning properly, if it were clogged or otherwise restricted, all of the recoil would transfer to the receiver and stock. The round would stilly probably cycle from the force of the recoil, but you would definitely notice a weak ejection.

Same thing for this post, similar to an SKS that has the gas system valved off, you would simply feel more recoil because the rearward movement of the action is no longer dampening the gas forcing backwards from behind the bullet. (My take on things so far)

Now here is where I am getting confused, according to the 'plugged gas port' theory, by you installing the setscrew like you did, we "should" notice the felt recoil as being harder.......?

The more controlled ejection of your cases makes perfect sence given that the piston is being driven back less forcefully. But based on the logic of the 'plugged gas port' theory, you should be getting more recoil after you installed your restriction.



I guess the only thing that makes sence to me is that the difference in recoil between a "good" gas port, and a clogged/restricted one, is not even in the same scale (of felt recoil) as a gas port that is too large and making the carrier slap the back of the reciever excessively and throw cases 35ft. Like you were getting whacked twice on the same shot, once when the round touched off, and again when the carrier slammed the reciever.

[Asmodeus6]

YB, that's what I thought would be the case going in too. Evidently the bolt carrier exacerbates felt recoil far more than a round of 7.62x39mm ever could. So if it's coming back like a freight train it's going to influence what you feel far more than the round going off ever will. So here's the curve ball. The AMD was not slamming anything like the Romanian. But dropping the orifice size in it still lowered perceived recoil slightly. Not as much but slightly. So it seems when you slow that carrier down. There's room for improvement, right up until you run into reliability. At some point it won't cycle well. And that is the point where you've gone too far. Which is why I didn't do anything drastic.

[YBNORMAL]

YB, that's what I thought would be the case going in too. Evidently the bolt carrier exacerbates felt recoil far more than a round of 7.62x39mm ever could. So if it's coming back like a freight train it's going to influence what you feel far more than the round going off ever will. So here's the curve ball. The AMD was not slamming anything like the Romanian. But dropping the orifice size in it still lowered perceived recoil slightly. Not as much but slightly. So it seems when you slow that carrier down. There's room for improvement, right up until you run into reliability. At some point it won't cycle well. And that is the point where you've gone too far. Which is why I didn't do anything drastic.

Yup, I was thinking the same. Are you worried about the setscrew becoming worn/pitted/scorched over time? Might be something to keep an eye on. <shrugs>

Excellent homegrown gunsmithing by the way.

[Asmodeus6]

Sure. I guess? Not really? I have SS ones I could drop in just as easy. I guess I'll keep an eye on it, but I did apply a high pressure copper lubricant to the threads before installing it. It's actually a high end bushing lubricant / anti-seize type paste I have that's similar to the stuff used in factory fresh Glocks.

Not just the average OTC copper anti-seize.

Plus I didn't install it monkey shit tight either. I really don't think it will be an issue at all really. I think the only way you could have an issue with this method is if you were really experimenting with how small of an orifice can you use and it still cycle. And then such a smaller hole would be more prone to plugging with carbon than a larger one.

Unlike some people though however... I clean my AK's. And that includes the gas tube and GB. Every time I shoot them. Insane concept I know...

I don't go crazy cleaning the bore, even though I do clean the rifle every time. Usually I just spray it with cleaner and snake it. And every FEW cleanings use a rod and brush... to keep from excellerating wear by too frequent cleaning regimen.

[JP8]

Let's recap your history in my thread.



Don't shoot the rifle... right...




Sarcastic asshole comment.




The apparent lack of social skills continues...



You didn't leave a whole lot of "guess work" in how to interpret your posts. And since what I did could basically only happen one way, and even people who have never even looked at their gas block before understood what I meant... I just assumed it was more of the same "super fun comments from Jup06".

Anyway...

"Like" meaning reduces the orifice size LIKE a nitrous jet does/can. Because you can get them in different orifice sizes... Not that it looks the same.

Yes I removed the gas block from the barrel. I broke a tap off in the first one (bad tap) and I cut it off and installed a new Romanian gas block. Which also had the same ID gas hole. Which I then tapped (on the rifle) and installed a set screw with a small hole in it.

Which solved the problem, and then some.

I guess I could have worded my responses in a more pleasant manner. My feelings are the same though. You basically:

1. tried to cut threads in the existing block to accept a reducer

2. the tap fouled and you had to put a new gas block on

-----right there and then, the new block in use didn't signify to you that there is a problem in your barrel?

Now:

Keep in mind, every secondary piece on these WASR-10's is made out of crap cast steel. The material won't hold a thread, let alone bluing.

The flow through the gas block will be limited to it's smallest diameter and/or it's sharpest curve.


A casting will not expand with applied heat nearly at the same rate as your chrome-lined barrel will. This is simple metallurgy.

I applaud you on your efforts and I think it's killer that you're trying to fix this, but as I stated before, I think there is something with the gas hole on your barrel.

Don't fix the problem....find the source of the problem

[Asmodeus6]

It was a cheap tap. It just snapped.

I never fired it with the new "used" has block on to determine.

It's not a wasr 10.

There are large sections of your post that seem barely in context. Regardless of whether it's the barrel gas hole, or gas block... Effectively reducing the orifice size fixes it all the same way. And it is fixed. So who cares how?