Disarmings The Threat Is Real

[DaveM55]

Here is a photo of an actual gun grab on a police officer.



http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-a...B37E033AF81F7F

The photos accompanying this article, as well as the cover, were captured by photojournalist Mike Kirby on a freeway outside of Auburn, Calif. They depict CHP Officer Larry Olveda fighting with a suspect who’s hell bent on taking Olveda’s gun and ending his life. Olveda and other personnel on the scene fought with the suspect for several minutes before control was gained. Although this month’s Tactics column was inspired by a disarming that occurred outside of the U.S., disarming is a very real threat domestically and all officers should remain cognizant of this. Training and appropriate equipment (safety holster) can make the difference between life and death.

Once again, a case I consulted on and eventually testified in is the genesis for this month’s Tactics column. It involves a disarming at an agency outside the U.S.
A few years ago, I was asked to review the circumstances surrounding the shooting of a municipal police officer who was disarmed of his weapon, severely beaten and fatally shot. Some of his equipment and personal effects were scattered around the area, suggesting a fairly drawn out ground fight. The 37-year-old officer left behind a wife and a small son.

What started out as a traffic stop of an apparent drunken driver eventually ended with the lone officer disarmed and murdered; the officer’s body being found by his father, who was also an officer with the same agency; and the suspect committing suicide with the officer’s sidearm. The basis of my review focused on whether the weapon retention training of the 7,000+ officer agency needed any modifications. My preliminary opinion was that it did. However, when the material sent for review was found lacking in some details, I asked for more information from the agency. Among other things, I wanted to know what manufacturer and security level holster the officer was using. What I eventually discovered was disturbing

[Emptymag]

I'd say the odds are higher that a LEO would encounter this, as their job places them in direct contact with people who are willing to do anything to "get away".

That said, a weapon retention class was a real eye opener for me.


Also, you may wish to quote that text or otherwise note that those are not your words in the OP (are they?) to avoid confusing replies to what "you" said.

[DaveM55]

I'd say the odds are higher that a LEO would encounter this, as their job places them in direct contact with people who are willing to do anything to "get away".

That said, a weapon retention class was a real eye opener for me.


Also, you may wish to quote that text or otherwise note that those are not your words in the OP (are they?) to avoid confusing replies to what "you" said.

Absolutely agree.

I was hoping the picture would show what an actual grab looks like.

It may come from any direction, and it is a struggle for your life.

Definate benefit to have two friends around to help.

[msp701]

Damn, that suspect looks like he is going to take a good shot to the face from the leftmost officer.

Scary stuff....

[ImminentDanger]

Thanks, DaveM55, for posting this....

I'd say the odds are higher that a LEO would encounter this, as their job places them in direct contact with people who are willing to do anything to "get away".

However, from the article:

Here in the U.S., the latest statistics from the FBI and the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund (NLEOMF) indicate that police deaths from disarmings continue to decline.

and this stood out.....

I testified to the fact that a suspect who touches your gun during a street contact has already demonstrated his intent. Weapon retention and ground fighting tactics do not include a measure of politeness. You must consider any disarming attempt a life-or-death situation.

... relative to some of the inane comments made in the thread about the Mall Cop who tried to disarm a carrying citizen.....
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/840...sarm-ocer.html
(http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/...p?f=26&t=40381)


... Stay Safe ...
ID

[reverserboy]

Here is a photo of an actual gun grab on a police officer.



http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-a...B37E033AF81F7F

I'll say it again....don't forget we have feet as well as hands. That CHP officer is in position deliver a kick with his right foot to perp's left knee/shin.
His left hand could deliver an eye strike to perp.

Dave....interesting post........what level of force can a LEO use to stop a gun grab?? Is any sort of strike OK in a situation like this??

[Drylok]

There are a number of reasons that I prefer conceal carry over open carry, this is one of them.

[reverserboy]

There are a number of reasons that I prefer conceal carry over open carry, this is one of them.

Carry however you want but the topic here is disarmings & retention. The mods won't allow a OC/CC debate on this thread.

So are you a LEO or do you have an Illinois carry license??

[mikepro8]

I have a series of pictures from that situation I used to use in my weapon retention classes.
In at least one of the photos, the mag from the officer's gun is on the ground. I did some research and found that some department actually advocate dropping the mag out of the gun if they bad guy has their hands on it, so if he gets it, there is only one round available (in the chamber.) IMO, that is a defeatist attitude and as such I never taught that practice.

BTW, that picture is YEARS old.

[uniballin]

Carry however you want but the topic here is disarmings & retention. The mods won't allow a OC/CC debate on this thread

This thread is a thinly veiled anti-OC thread... and I only say that based on the OP's posting history.



Regardless, retention is important which is why LEOs need to be prepared against disarming attempts since they interact with the scum of the earth every day. That doesn't mean that OC'ers can keep their guard down then, they need to be 100% aware of their surroundings at all time (and it helps to have a holster with a decent retention level).